WI: Prince Eugene of Savoy in War of the Austrian Succession

What if Prinz Eugen doesn't die in 1736 and is alive in 1740 to lead the Austrian Army to victory against Prussia and France in the War of the Austrian Succession? So Austria keeps Silesia and stuff like that.

Also, this would mean he is alive in 1737 so the Austrians, naturally, keep Serbia and Oltenia, since there's basically no chance for the Turks to defeat Austria when he's around.

I understand he was old as hell in 1736, but he was still leading troops in the War of the Polish Succession (Frederick the Great actually watched him fighting the French!) so there's a pretty good chance he'll be called up once again to lead Austria to victory.
 
What if Prinz Eugen doesn't die in 1736 and is alive in 1740 to lead the Austrian Army to victory against Prussia and France in the War of the Austrian Succession? So Austria keeps Silesia and stuff like that.

Also, this would mean he is alive in 1737 so the Austrians, naturally, keep Serbia and Oltenia, since there's basically no chance for the Turks to defeat Austria when he's around.

I understand he was old as hell in 1736, but he was still leading troops in the War of the Polish Succession (Frederick the Great actually watched him fighting the French!) so there's a pretty good chance he'll be called up once again to lead Austria to victory.
Seems like the guy's mental faculties' failing in 1734.So it's perfectly possible that he would screw up quite badly.
 
Last edited:
Seems like the guy's mental faculty's failing in 1734.So it's perfectly possible that he would screw up quite badly.

That's a good point, but there's also something else. Frederick the Great was just "Frederick the Known-by-none" in 1740, and nearly lost his first battle, almost getting himself killed if I rember as well. And, while it's probably ASB, he could return from this devoid mental state (as Frederick himself described him as being in) and become the lively, indestructible general that he had been before.
 
He was a talented general, but he had his flaws. Aside from his failing mental faculties at the end of his life, he wasn't that great of a logistician, so sometimes they failed to follow up on a tactical victory in the War of Spanish Succession since pursuit would have put them at risk of starvation. Also, he left no plan for his successor, something that would cause problems in the War of Austrian Succession. The idea of providing garrison troops adequate field battle training never seemed to have occurred to him, so when they were used as an ad hoc field army in the War of Polish Succession and Austrian Succession, they were little more green troops with some idea on infantry vs infantry fights, but no idea how to deal with cavalry other than "yeah, form a square we never practiced for before"

Actually, I wonder why squares were the anti cavalry formation. It really should be a hexagon, which is a bit harder to drill for, but would be slightly more effective against cavalry and considerably more against combined infantry and cavalry assault.

OK, let's try to get some concrete events. You can take these into your timeline or not let's just say it's a possibility.

In the battle of Mollwitz in 1741, Prince Eugene expects his larger forces to win, but due to poor drilling, bad reconnaissance, and pre committing his cavalry reserve when the right wing shattered to a cavalry charge causes them to lose control of the battle. Eugene of Savoy extracts his forces safely without much loses. By May 1741, he fortifies Striegau and prepares for the Prussian assault. 32 Thousand Prussians attack, but this time Eugene is ready. He marshals 3000 cavalry into three separate groups and each group slams into the Prussian left flank. The artillery fires 4 volleys into the Prussian front, and the Austrian infantry counterattacks. in the actual fighting the Austrians lose 3420 troops and the Prussians lose 8930. In the end, 3K Prussian prisoners are captured as they try to flee in vain, while artillery and siege train is also captured. Despite the losses of battle, the Prussians don't lose heart. This time their King Frederick stayed with them the whole battle unlike in Mollwitz. The Austrians advance, but eventually they start wandering off. They sack and loot the 4th, 6th, and 7th largest urban areas of Prussia before falling back for the winter. Prussia and Austria agree to a 38 month truce.

In 1942, Eugene is sent to help Otto Ferdinand Graf von Traun on the Italian front. They face 40,000 Spanish and Nepalitians. The previous year, just like real life, the von Traun forces the Modena duke to cave to Austria without a fight. While the enemy is in disorder, the Austrian armies launch a surprise attack in September of 1741, inflicting 3,000 casualties while suffering a third of that. This unerves the Spanish enough to not take offensive operations until reinforcements arrive in 1743.

Eugene is once again transferred, von Traun is seen as a capable leader, probably able to hold the Po Valley on his own. The Prussians are in a truce and most defiantly will not break a truce *cough.* The fronts in Bavaria and Netherlands need leadership. In 1743 The French launch an attack into Austrian Netherlands with 62,000 troops, reasoning that their losses at Dettingen can be compensated if they can capture some channel ports. The Pragmatic Army failed to capitalize at Dettingen, but Prince Eugene convinces them that they can have another field victory. 3,000 Hannoverians, 10,000 British, and 45,000 Austrians head West tot he Netherlands. By luck, some of the Austrian Dragoons spot the French trying to attack Ghent and its outdated fortifications. The Pragmatic Army soon cuts off the French from their supply lines. The French, still in disorder after Dettingen, attack blindly at the Pragmatic Army's improvised fortifications. The Austrians advance in oblique order, concentrating on their right flank and smashing the French. Some of the French decide rather than trying to fight the Austrians, they flee into the East forested area around Ghent where the British patrols are sporadic and pursuit is difficult. The Austrians and British dismissed heavily investing this area as it cannot be sued to flank the main army. The Austrians take 34,000 prisoners, while the rest of the French army escapes with light arms through there.

Prince Eugene asks for 90 days of rest, he is getting physically and mentally tired. Austria keeps him deployed there for the next year, while the British take de facto command. Unfortunately, they are too slow to react to anything, just like real life, so nothing happens for the moment.

Of being able to field 300,000 troops at multiple fronts in the Seven years War later means the material losses to France isn't even that much.

What do you think? I can imagine the Prince in his Prime being able to pull those off (and maaaaybe when he's old). Winning the War of Austrian Succession with less losses means they would be able to take on the Turks more easily.
 
You know there is a chance they could lose to Fritz anyway, the Prussian army was quite good at the time.
 
Last edited:
The Austrians had numerical superiority. I think one single victory early on in the war might make Fritz back off completely (I doubt it...) or temporarily (that truce thing I suggested). Give them good leadership, and the might get that victory they need. After their first few poor showings, he decided he could weave in and out the war whenever he felt was convenient. Frederick decided to peace out when the Austrians gave him Silesia and go back into the war when it looked like they would take it from him when they secured Bohemia and the Rhine.
 
The Austrians had numerical superiority. I think one single victory early on in the war might make Fritz back off completely (I doubt it...) or temporarily (that truce thing I suggested). Give them good leadership, and the might get that victory they need. After their first few poor showings, he decided he could weave in and out the war whenever he felt was convenient. Frederick decided to peace out when the Austrians gave him Silesia and go back into the war when it looked like they would take it from him when they secured Bohemia and the Rhine.
Oh I'm sure having a good military leader would help significantly, I was just pointing out that considering the quality of the Prussian army there is no guarantee it won't still win.
 
Again, it all comes to psychology. Until the larger Austrian army loses a battle, probably only need to win ONE battle that inflicts say... 3K casualties to scare the outnumbered Prussians. If Austria loses their first battles, the Prussians know all their drilling didn't go to waste.
 
Again, it all comes to psychology. Until the larger Austrian army loses a battle, probably only need to win ONE battle that inflicts say... 3K casualties to scare the outnumbered Prussians. If Austria loses their first battles, the Prussians know all their drilling didn't go to waste.
This is true, if Fritz loses his nerve before he really gets his feet under him as a commander the silesian wars could fizzle out quickly.
 
Sorry for my late response, my computer has been screwed up since its hard drive pretty much died on me, but I do plan to make a timeline when I get my computer working again based on the possibility of Prince Eugene's mental state not killing his mind and him living long enough to win the War of the Polish Succession, Austro-Russo-Turkish War, and War of the Austrian Succession (Austria still has Silesia and Sicily-Naples and Serbia and Oltenia and all that) and, as a statesman, being diplomatically able enough to secure an alliance with France before the Seven Years' War starts (he dies before it, of course, he's not Jeanne Calment), where Austria doesn't cede any land in the Netherlands to France if they win (I would say more, but that would spoil the timeline. You can just look in any thread about a French victory in the war to find out some ideas, including my own thread). But yeah, it's about a stronger Austria. I may even stretch it to the modern day with a united Habsburg Germany and stuff like that.
 
Sorry for my late response, my computer has been screwed up since its hard drive pretty much died on me, but I do plan to make a timeline when I get my computer working again based on the possibility of Prince Eugene's mental state not killing his mind and him living long enough to win the War of the Polish Succession, Austro-Russo-Turkish War, and War of the Austrian Succession (Austria still has Silesia and Sicily-Naples and Serbia and Oltenia and all that) and, as a statesman, being diplomatically able enough to secure an alliance with France before the Seven Years' War starts (he dies before it, of course, he's not Jeanne Calment), where Austria doesn't cede any land in the Netherlands to France if they win (I would say more, but that would spoil the timeline. You can just look in any thread about a French victory in the war to find out some ideas, including my own thread). But yeah, it's about a stronger Austria. I may even stretch it to the modern day with a united Habsburg Germany and stuff like that.
It doesn't make any sense for Austria nd France to ally in an alt 7 years war if Austria beat Prussia in the war of Austrian succession
 
I have a plan to make it different.

I will say that Austria does not retain ALL of Silesia from the Prussians (they lose the northern part like Breslau and stuff, but keep most of Upper Silesia and the Glatz region. Prussia remains a strong enough power for Britain to see them as a better country to defend Hanover than Austria. Wile I said it would be a victory in my first post, it won't really be a victory. It'll pretty much be the same as the first war, just with Eugene in command. France still has guys like Maurice to lead their armies, after all. But Austria does keep Sicily-Naples and Parma nonetheless.
 
Last edited:
Are you going to conjure up a new major Continental power for France to dislike, Austria to hate and Britain to ally out of thin air?

Well, I reeditted my post so there's what's going to happen. I actually didn't get your post until after I changed it to show my idea, but it's pretty much the same as what you said. But France still of course hates Britain due to naval conflicts and disputes over ownership of regions like the Americas, Senegal, and India.
 
Top