WI: Prince Albert lives longer?

Simple question really, but how would Britain, Her Empire, Her System of Government and the world look like if Prince Albert had managed to live out his full life as opposed to dying young at 42 years of age. In my opinion, this would have far reaching consequences, as Albert had many vocal ideas about how Britain and Her Empire should be Governed as well as being a great patron of Art and Design.

But what do you think? I have had ideas in the back of my head about doing a TL based on this premise, so any ideas/discussion is welcome.
 
I know that he served as Victoria's secretary of sorts, but never really played a big role politically. He wasn't very well liked by the British -- I remember when Ernst Augustus visited England in 1843, he invited Albert to stroll with him in the park, Albert refused, because the crowds might taunt them, but the the King of Hannover said: "When I lived here I was quite as unpopular as you are and they never bothered me."

From what I can garner he seemed concerned about the working classes and was relatively liberal and progressive, especially concerning things like finances, slavery, and education. I can definately see him favoring things to aid the working classes, esp. an early form of social works, probably in the 1870s or 1880s (around the same time as Bismarck's social reforms to curb socialist influence in Germany). He might also support increasing the franchise further, so we might see universal manhood suffrage in Britain earlier as well? But I'm not sure he would have much effect politically... maybe on domestic politics, but nothing else. I swear I read a TL where his survival allowed Britain to aid the CSA, or something of the sort, but that seems unlikely, he died in 1861 anyways.

It would definately be an interesting TL... his longer life might also give the Whigs a chance at survival, if they adapt things such as supporting suffrage for all men, and aiding the 'working man' it would definately put a muzzle on the Labor movement.
 

Tweeky

Banned
I don't know much about Albert but from what I've heard he favoured far better treatment for the "Natives" in the British empire (like Gladstone did); had he lived a lot lot longer. I suspect Disraeli would've not got the influence he did; it's quite possible that the British empire might've evolved into an empire where the "Natives" had a say in their affairs. For instance India might've stayed as a dominion with the UK instead of demanding independence.

I can't say anymore but from what little i've read and watched in documentaries on the British empire, I think the it would've gone a very different path and still not only be a commonwealth but a federation instead.
 

Redbeard

Banned
AFAIK he had a great influence on Victoria and not at least politically.

Albert had a good insight in and interest for German matters and I could imagine British-German relations improving. But if enough to decisively change say the side GB is on in WWI I can't say.

It is said that when Victoria once asked Lord Palmerson about the ups and downs of the Slesvig-Holstein question, he shoudl have answered something like: "It is a very complicated question and only three persons ever understood this. One was your deer husband Prince Albert, who now is dead, the second was a German professor, who now is at an assylum for the in sain, and the the third is myself, but I have forgotten".

I could imagine Prince Albert living would mean a more active British intervention in German matters and not at least the S-H question, but I'm not quite sure how. As a German Albert probably would have great sympathy for the German speaking in Slesvig-Holstein wanting independence from Denmark, but OTOH he might also be more aware of the risks of Prussia becomming too dominant.

But perhaps Albert alive would mean the Danish Government realising that they are on their own (and in deep trouble) if they press to hard in the S-H question, and that this all in all increases the chances of some kind of negotiated solution - before war breaks out. The most likely result is that at least Holsten(Holstein) becomes an independent German state (not annexed by Prussia) It was an old German claim (from a 15th century treaty) that Slesvig and Holstein should not be separated, but I'm also sure that short of a total military defeat Denmark could not agree to letting Slesvig loose (Slesvig was mainly Danish speaking, as Holstein was mainly German). In OTL 1864 Denmark unilaterally annexed Slesvig and let Holstein loose, but thereby broke all international treaties, incl. the London agreement of 1853, and handed Bismarck the perfect opportunity to roll over Denmark - and start the German unification process.

If that haden't happened it would still have been a hot issue and an obvious one for the British to intervene in - especially with Albert being there and constantly asking the PM what he intends to do. A result could be the King of Denmark renouncing Holsten/Holstein and Slesvig being pulled out of the German Reich (but remaining a Duchy ruled by the King of Denmark). That would drastically reduce Bismarck's early role as the German hero but the British would be an active partner in North Germany, perhaps guaranteeing the independence of Holstein as well as preventing Slesvig from being totally annexed by Denmark.

Tackled so early I think there is a fair chance of Bismarck's great unification project never completing. The consequences in the 20th century are too big to be really comprehended.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
 
AFAIK he had a great influence on Victoria and not at least politically.

Albert had a good insight in and interest for German matters and I could imagine British-German relations improving. But if enough to decisively change say the side GB is on in WWI I can't say.

It is said that when Victoria once asked Lord Palmerson about the ups and downs of the Slesvig-Holstein question, he shoudl have answered something like: "It is a very complicated question and only three persons ever understood this. One was your deer husband Prince Albert, who now is dead, the second was a German professor, who now is at an assylum for the in sain, and the the third is myself, but I have forgotten".

I could imagine Prince Albert living would mean a more active British intervention in German matters and not at least the S-H question, but I'm not quite sure how. As a German Albert probably would have great sympathy for the German speaking in Slesvig-Holstein wanting independence from Denmark, but OTOH he might also be more aware of the risks of Prussia becomming too dominant.

But perhaps Albert alive would mean the Danish Government realising that they are on their own (and in deep trouble) if they press to hard in the S-H question, and that this all in all increases the chances of some kind of negotiated solution - before war breaks out. The most likely result is that at least Holsten(Holstein) becomes an independent German state (not annexed by Prussia) It was an old German claim (from a 15th century treaty) that Slesvig and Holstein should not be separated, but I'm also sure that short of a total military defeat Denmark could not agree to letting Slesvig loose (Slesvig was mainly Danish speaking, as Holstein was mainly German). In OTL 1864 Denmark unilaterally annexed Slesvig and let Holstein loose, but thereby broke all international treaties, incl. the London agreement of 1853, and handed Bismarck the perfect opportunity to roll over Denmark - and start the German unification process.

If that haden't happened it would still have been a hot issue and an obvious one for the British to intervene in - especially with Albert being there and constantly asking the PM what he intends to do. A result could be the King of Denmark renouncing Holsten/Holstein and Slesvig being pulled out of the German Reich (but remaining a Duchy ruled by the King of Denmark). That would drastically reduce Bismarck's early role as the German hero but the British would be an active partner in North Germany, perhaps guaranteeing the independence of Holstein as well as preventing Slesvig from being totally annexed by Denmark.

Tackled so early I think there is a fair chance of Bismarck's great unification project never completing. The consequences in the 20th century are too big to be really comprehended.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard

I don't really see how Albert living would have any huge impact on German affairs, at least the Schleswig-Holstein question. While Albert no doubt offered his wife advice, I don't believe she was ever lead by him. Besides, Victoria seems to have had no great liking for the Danes; her and Albert was reluctant to marry her son to the daughter of the Danish King because of the Schleswig-Holstein question and because most of the British Royal Families relations were German. They only settled upon Alexandra of Denmark because she was basically the only possible match for the Prince of Wales.

Victoria and Albert were hoping to see a liberal Germany unify at some point, after all, their eldest daughter had married the Prussian Crown Prince (Frederick III). I don't see Britain supporting Denmark or the Danes acting any more cautiously whether Albert was alive or not; indeed, Victoria became quite annoyed in 1863 because the Prince and Princess of Wales were supportive of the Danes in the conflict. The Princess of Wales was essentially a huge Germanophobe because of this conflict. Britain was quite ambivalent to the prospect of German unification -- it only aroused suspensions from Victoria when Germany decided to annex Alsace-Lorraine in 1871. Other than that, it made a useful deterent for a French hegemony on the continent. Britain was friendly to Napoleon III, but definately not friendly enough to aid him because of his own bumbling diplomacy.

But this does raise the question regarding Germany: Albert was the second son of the Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. Albert's elder brother Ernst II was married to Frederica of Baden, but never had any children. This meant that upon his death in 1893, Alfred, the Duke of Edinburgh and second son of Victoria and Alfred became the new Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. If Alfred is still alive when his brother dies, will he inherit the Duchy, or still pass it to his son? The Duke of Edinburgh became the Duke in OTL because the Prince of Wales had renounced his right to the Duchy (for good reason, he would someday be King of the United Kingdom... although the British Empire being in personal union with a small Germany duchy would be interesting, it would mean little as the Duchy would still be part of the German Empire).
 

Redbeard

Banned
I don't really see how Albert living would have any huge impact on German affairs, at least the Schleswig-Holstein question. While Albert no doubt offered his wife advice, I don't believe she was ever lead by him. Besides, Victoria seems to have had no great liking for the Danes; her and Albert was reluctant to marry her son to the daughter of the Danish King because of the Schleswig-Holstein question and because most of the British Royal Families relations were German. They only settled upon Alexandra of Denmark because she was basically the only possible match for the Prince of Wales.

Victoria and Albert were hoping to see a liberal Germany unify at some point, after all, their eldest daughter had married the Prussian Crown Prince (Frederick III). I don't see Britain supporting Denmark or the Danes acting any more cautiously whether Albert was alive or not; indeed, Victoria became quite annoyed in 1863 because the Prince and Princess of Wales were supportive of the Danes in the conflict. The Princess of Wales was essentially a huge Germanophobe because of this conflict. Britain was quite ambivalent to the prospect of German unification -- it only aroused suspensions from Victoria when Germany decided to annex Alsace-Lorraine in 1871. Other than that, it made a useful deterent for a French hegemony on the continent. Britain was friendly to Napoleon III, but definately not friendly enough to aid him because of his own bumbling diplomacy.

But this does raise the question regarding Germany: Albert was the second son of the Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. Albert's elder brother Ernst II was married to Frederica of Baden, but never had any children. This meant that upon his death in 1893, Alfred, the Duke of Edinburgh and second son of Victoria and Alfred became the new Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. If Alfred is still alive when his brother dies, will he inherit the Duchy, or still pass it to his son? The Duke of Edinburgh became the Duke in OTL because the Prince of Wales had renounced his right to the Duchy (for good reason, he would someday be King of the United Kingdom... although the British Empire being in personal union with a small Germany duchy would be interesting, it would mean little as the Duchy would still be part of the German Empire).

I'm not in any way basing my ATL on Albert or Victoria liking the Danes or their cause, on the contrary I assume that a greater German influence at the British Court/Government might have the Danish Government realise, that they should be more cautious towards S-H.

If this has the Danish Government abort the unilateral annexation of Slesvig, which anyway was a kind of panick reaction, we have a good starting point for a negotiated solution over S-H including all the consequences for Bismarck's later role. And basically all we need is Albert having the Danish Government see the British Government/Court as slightly more Pro-German.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
 
I swear I read a TL where his survival allowed Britain to aid the CSA, or something of the sort, but that seems unlikely, he died in 1861 anyways.

And even as he was dying worked to defuse the Trent incident. And favored the abolition of slavery.

Albert surviving means Victoria does not isolate herself, avoiding the subsequent loss of popularity of the monarchy. It also means Victoria does not blame her oldest son for his father's death, which reduces the amount of estrangement between them, perhaps resulting Edward being allowed a more active role in government.

A live Albert would also have an influence through letters on his oldest daughter, Vicky, who shared his views but lacked his patience and diplomacy. This could lead to better relations between her and the the Prussian court as well as her and her son, the future Wilhelm II.

There's also the chance that Albert surviving means Queen Victoria has a 10th child. She might not be too old for another pregnancy.
 
I'm not in any way basing my ATL on Albert or Victoria liking the Danes or their cause, on the contrary I assume that a greater German influence at the British Court/Government might have the Danish Government realise, that they should be more cautious towards S-H.

If this has the Danish Government abort the unilateral annexation of Slesvig, which anyway was a kind of panick reaction, we have a good starting point for a negotiated solution over S-H including all the consequences for Bismarck's later role. And basically all we need is Albert having the Danish Government see the British Government/Court as slightly more Pro-German.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard

But this 'influence' of German unity existed in OTL and the Danes saw no reason to be more cautious regarding the question. I just don't see how the Prince Consort surviving would make the Danish government take any different action regarding the Schleswig-Hosltein question. I believe, that whether Albert is dead or alive, the Danes are still going to unilaterally annex it. You would need POD a little further back to influence the Schleswig crisis IMO.

Albert's influence on the British government was negligible. Although during Peel's premiership his authority "beside the throne" so to speak was made apparent by the fact that he was present whenever Victoria met her ministers, or even met them alone, and had access to all her papers, he didn't really do anything OTL to suggest he had any great influence over the workings of the government. It was precisely because of his foreign origin that this happened -- he could not allow himself to be seen as a meddling consort.

And even as he was dying worked to defuse the Trent incident. And favored the abolition of slavery.

Albert surviving means Victoria does not isolate herself, avoiding the subsequent loss of popularity of the monarchy. It also means Victoria does not blame her oldest son for his father's death, which reduces the amount of estrangement between them, perhaps resulting Edward being allowed a more active role in government.

A live Albert would also have an influence through letters on his oldest daughter, Vicky, who shared his views but lacked his patience and diplomacy. This could lead to better relations between her and the the Prussian court as well as her and her son, the future Wilhelm II.

There's also the chance that Albert surviving means Queen Victoria has a 10th child. She might not be too old for another pregnancy.

The mention of a tenth child sparked my brain -- Albert surviving will definately effect the life of their youngest daughter, Beatrice. OTL, Beatrice stayed close to Victoria for the rest of her life, Victoria relying on her for almost everything. It even went so far for Victoria not to see her youngest daughter marry, although she allowed him to marry Henry of Battenberg, she had many possible suitors, such as Louis IV, the Grand Duke of Hesse, her sisters widower, and most importantly, the Prince Imperial, Napoléon (son of Napoléon III; thus Napoléon IV to some Bonapartists). Princess Beatrice marrying Napoléon IV would be quite interesting, even if he is in exile at this point... it means the survival of the line of Louis Bonaparte, who had been King of Holland.

We could also see a different husband for Princess Louise; Victoria desired to keep her home as well, and demanded her future husband reside in England, thus she ended up marrying the Marquis of Lorne.The son of William III was proposed, but Victoria was against it because he had a mistress and lived a dissolute life in Paris -- if Albert is alive, the Prince of Orange may have a different lifestyle (through butterflies), or Albert may simply see it as a good way to cement relations between the English monarchy and the Dutch one. Either way, we could see a possible continuation of the House of Orange in the male line -- and a continuing personal union between the Netherlands and Luxemburg.

The same goes for Princess Helena, who also stayed near her mother because she demanded it. Yet I'm unsure what foreign match could await her.
 
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