WI: President William H. Murray?

Rush Tarquin

Gone Fishin'
What if William H. Murray got on the Democratic ticket as the vice presidential candidate due to convention wrangling. The president gets offed by Zangara or whatever and William H. Murray becomes president. How does he handle the Depression, foreign affairs, WWII, and race relations?
 
To start let me say there is no way he would have lasted long enough to have any impact on World War II. His domestic policy would have been a disaster since his only answer to any question was to send in the troops. The New Deal would not have existed—no Glass Stengell, National Labor Relations Act, National Recovery Administration etc. Financial reform would have fell to the states lead by Governor Lehman of New York. The result, I think, would have been interstate banking as Lehman would have offered the carrot of allowing NY banks to do business in other states. There probably would not have been much change in race policies. Let’s face it Roosevelt did little in this area. Conversely with Jim Crow firming in place there probably would not be much that Murray would have wanted to do. After 4 years someone else would have been elected.
 

Rush Tarquin

Gone Fishin'
Cool.

So I sort of asked this as a way to ask just how bad the Great Depression could have been in the US and the social and political effects it would have had. Would Murray sending in the troops to settle any and every disturbance have stamped out such disturbances or would it have radicalized people further?
 
Cool.

So I sort of asked this as a way to ask just how bad the Great Depression could have been in the US and the social and political effects it would have had. Would Murray sending in the troops to settle any and every disturbance have stamped out such disturbances or would it have radicalized people further?

I'm thinking that with no New Deal or similar effort on behalf of the government to alleviate the suffering of the Depression to provide the carrot to the stick of constant National Guard protest-busting, that any and every movement that got their chops busted by National Guard troops would be radicalized if it wasn't destroyed.

In this scenario, if he lives, I could see Huey Long becoming a very serious contender for the presidency in 1936.
 
I read a TL once where Murray became president. It was an ultradystopia-wank, with Murray alining the US firmly with Hitler and joining World War II at the beginning, on the side of the Nazis, using the threat of Communism as a pretext for joining.

Personally, though I think the US (and the world) are much better off without a Murray presidency, he won't turn the US into a fascist state, as was the case in that TL. That said, I think he'd use questionable tactics if it suited him politically and he won't be above trying to exploit fear in society to win a second term

Assuming he lasts until World War II (which as stated earlier, is questionable), I see a strict nutrality stance as the most likely outcome, as far as US-German relations go.

My knolidge of Murray is almost non-existent, but I got the impression he was a New-Dealer. I imagine he'd try and implement something relatively simelar to the New Deal in office, for the sake of keeping himself popular if for no other reason... I have a hard time seeing him get as much done as Roosevelt though.

I think it's more likely than not that Murray will lose renomination in 1936 and that Long could be a contender. I'm not sure who else they could run-their's Richie of course, Smith and Garner will also probably run-but I don't think either will be nominated. I don't have all that much knolidge of 1930's internal Democratic politics however, so I could well be wrong. Having said that, if FDR isn't the nominee in 1932 for whatever reason, a successful convention challenge over president Murray in 1936 is very likely, in which case the New deal is tried 4 years later. The Democrat will probably win the 1936 election in any case unless things get radically worse, as Hoover and the Republicans are still a vivid memory.
 
Personally, though I think the US (and the world) are much better off without a Murray presidency, he won't turn the US into a fascist state, as was the case in that TL. That said, I think he'd use questionable tactics if it suited him politically and he won't be above trying to exploit fear in society to win a second term

Assuming he lasts until World War II (which as stated earlier, is questionable), I see a strict nutrality stance as the most likely outcome, as far as US-German relations go.

My knolidge of Murray is almost non-existent, but I got the impression he was a New-Dealer. I imagine he'd try and implement something relatively simelar to the New Deal in office, for the sake of keeping himself popular if for no other reason... I have a hard time seeing him get as much done as Roosevelt though.

I think it's more likely than not that Murray will lose renomination in 1936 and that Long could be a contender.

Murray actually did openly admire fascism later in life, so that might not be too far off the mark. He supported the New Deal early on, so it's not entirely inconceivable that he'd consent to be on the ticket with Roosevelt in 1932, although he did end up hating FDR, calling him a communist and criticizing the New Deal after his own Presidential bid failed.

If Murray did somehow end up on the ticket and eventually end up as President, you'd probably see isolationism, authoritarianism (probably not fascism) and a toned-down New Deal - all of which could result in a serious extra-party left-wing opposition either from Farmer-Labor types (maybe Lemke's Union Party?), the CPUSA or a Southern populist like Long. The country could very well tip towards violence.
 

Rush Tarquin

Gone Fishin'
If there's a watered down New Deal and no US participation in WWII, how long would it take for the US to recover fully from the Depression?
 
Murray actually did openly admire fascism later in life, so that might not be too far off the mark. He supported the New Deal early on, so it's not entirely inconceivable that he'd consent to be on the ticket with Roosevelt in 1932, although he did end up hating FDR, calling him a communist and criticizing the New Deal after his own Presidential bid failed.

If Murray did somehow end up on the ticket and eventually end up as President, you'd probably see isolationism, authoritarianism (probably not fascism) and a toned-down New Deal - all of which could result in a serious extra-party left-wing opposition either from Farmer-Labor types (maybe Lemke's Union Party?), the CPUSA or a Southern populist like Long. The country could very well tip towards violence.

Pretty much agree with all of this. I did hear Murray flerted with Fascism, my argument for him not going fascist has a lot more to do with congress preventing him from implimenting fascist policies, even if he had wanted to.

I think Authoritarianism is a given though-and as I said earlier on, he'd use scare tactics to try and keep himself in office if he was up for reelection. I imagine his opposition to the New Deal has more to do with the fact that it wasn't him getting the creddit for it, rather than ideological differences.

The US is almost certainly Isolationist for much longer if Murray has anything to do with it, for no other reason than most politicians (and the public) were isolationist until World War II and Murray is no FDR. It'd be pure guess work if I were to put a time on when recovery would start, but I imagine it'd be delayed by a decade at least.
 
If Murray did somehow end up on the ticket and eventually end up as President, you'd probably see isolationism, authoritarianism (probably not fascism) and a toned-down New Deal ...

Bear in mind that the early New Deal was substantially inspired by the Italian Fascist economic system. This is not as damning as it sounds: in 1933, traditional capitalism was in catastrophic collapse and "corporatism" looked like a viable alternative - apparently successful.

A major element of the early New Deal was the cartelization of business, labor, and commerce under the NRA. The head of the NRA had a portrait of Mussolini in his office, IIRC. And there were NRA "Blue Eagle" parades with tens of thousands of marchers carrying "Blue Eagle" paraphernalia. (Sound familiar?)

So Murray might go for an even more radical "New Deal". What happens when the Supreme Court objects? Could get very ugly.

Another difference: FDR was an Ivy League Easterner. To implement his program, he summoned the "Brain Trust" of university intellectuals. Murray is a sodbuster Okie - he'll be far more "populist".
 
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