WI - Post-Qing China becomes a constitutional monarchy after Xinhai Revolution

What if after the Xinhai Revolution, China becomes a constitutional monarchy under the Duke of Yansheng or Marquis of Zhu?

What would the name of this post-Qing dynasty be called if it manages to survive to the present day?
 
Probably just “Empire of China”. Such a constitutional monarchy will not require all the trappings of a traditional dynasty. If it’s still around today they may even drop the word empire as Japan has done.
 
Not sure how accurate it is though was under the impression from other threads here the Duke of Yansheng was for some reason a more popular candidate to become the post-Qing Emperor than the Marquis of Zhu?

If its the Duke of Yansheng would the dynasty be called the Later Shang / Yin (or possibly Song)?
 
Last edited:

Kaze

Banned
Duke of Yansheng would be a step backwards - Confucianism was one of the reason why China lagged behind. A constitution might not foster under him. Though I would loved to see the time line of the Later Yin.

The Marquis as emperor would be more supported - more people shouted "Down with the Qing, restore the Ming" than placing a descendant of Confucius on to the throne. A constitution would be hard to get under him as well. I would love to see a time line of the Later Ming as well.

Might I do these two time lines later?
 

Asparukh

Banned
You're more likely to just have them try to re-form the Qing into a constitutional monarchy. Though said constitutional monarchy would likely devolve into a Bonaparte-esque military dictatorship sooner rather than later. Even if a small clique of Westernized leaders wanted to establish a Western-style constitutional government, the vast majority of Chinese elites have only ever known feudalism and wouldn't buy into things like rule of law or parliamentary governance. In addition, China lacked the institutional bureaucracy to establish a truly modern state, and it would take decades to build one up, decades they're unlikely to have with the Europeans ever encroaching on their land.
 

RousseauX

Donor
You're more likely to just have them try to re-form the Qing into a constitutional monarchy. Though said constitutional monarchy would likely devolve into a Bonaparte-esque military dictatorship sooner rather than later. Even if a small clique of Westernized leaders wanted to establish a Western-style constitutional government, the vast majority of Chinese elites have only ever known feudalism and wouldn't buy into things like rule of law or parliamentary governance. In addition, China lacked the institutional bureaucracy to establish a truly modern state, and it would take decades to build one up, decades they're unlikely to have with the Europeans ever encroaching on their land.
You are right about the military dictatorship part: with the caveat that it devolves into a military dictatorship literally immediately after whoever gets proclaimed emperor (whether it stays that way or we re-run the history of the 1913 chinese parliament is unknown), but the the 1900s the chinese elite were already at the point where they would accept some kind of westernized political institutions: so long as they get to wield power within those institutions.

Also, as long as there is a central government in beijing with a semi-competent Beiyang army, the foreign incursions into China will be nowhere as bad as historically between 1916 and 1945 or so
 

Asparukh

Banned
You are right about the military dictatorship part, but the the 1900s the chinese elite were already at the point where they would accept some kind of westernized political institutions: so long as they get to wield power within those institutions.

Also, as long as there is a central government in beijing with a semi-competent Beiyang army, the foreign incursions into China will be nowhere as bad as historically between 1916 and 1945 or so

Obviously preventing the Warlord Era would be a vast improvement over what actually happened, though I don't see how becoming a nominal constitutional monarchy instead of a nominal republic will do anything to make it more or less likely to occur. Without much earlier changes, China was only ever going to become a military dictatorship, a bunch of little military dictatorships, or a full-on colony of the West.
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
Donor
Monthly Donor
The descendants of the Ming had no money or power. They would accept whatever constitution the people who installed them chose because they would not have any other choice.
 
I would suggest a branch of Kong family (that is, the descendants of Confucius) as potential constitutional monarchs, but I don't know if it's possible enough.
 

Kaze

Banned
I would suggest a branch of Kong family (that is, the descendants of Confucius) as potential constitutional monarchs, but I don't know if it's possible enough.

I already mentioned the Kong Family - the "Duke of Yansheng" is the title of the head of the family. He and his descendants was awarded that title for generations - well until the Communist take over. Wherein one must ask the question of what will happen to Chang Kai Shek and Mao if there is already a dictatorship there?
 

RousseauX

Donor
I already mentioned the Kong Family - the "Duke of Yansheng" is the title of the head of the family. He and his descendants was awarded that title for generations - well until the Communist take over. Wherein one must ask the question of what will happen to Chang Kai Shek and Mao if there is already a dictatorship there?
Mao might end up heading some Communism movement anyway, it might be an outlawed political party with limited influence in some of the more emote provinces though. It might end up being something like China's FARC, the extremist militant wing of the Chinese leftist movement fighting a guerrilla war with the government but never managing to take over any important parts of the country.

More "mainstream" left-wing parties would try to participate in the "legitimate" political process.

Chang would be a general for the regime, there's a very good chance he end up maneuvers himself into a de facto military dictator with a puppet emperor
 
Oh, John Reilly's old new dynasty scenario? Probably Xin dynasty, or if Yuan Shikai decides to rule behind the scenes using the Marquis of of Zhu we'd get the Later Ming, or one of the others.

Possible Iran-type outcome sometime in the 60s to 80s for the same reasons as OTL Iran.
 
Like some folks says, the new dynasty will be probably led by Duke of Yansheng (Confucius descendant) or Marquis of Zhu. A constitutional monarchy of course if only to gain supporters from mainstream Chinese people as well as modernizers and reformers. I'd say Constitutional Monarchy China is better than Warlords over anything.

As for dynasty names, I suggests taking cues from Bagua for ideas. If it's up to me, I'll name it as the Qian Dynasty. According to Bagua, Qian means Heaven in English. Although, Hendryk's China TL beat me to it.

All I can offer is some name ideas if anyone here don't mind: 天 (Tiān), 阳 (Yáng) or 正 (Zhèng). Up to anyone who chooses, really.
 
Top