WI: Poseidon Remains King Of The Gods in Greek Mythology?

[KingOnTheEdge]

In Myceanean Greece, the head olympian wasn't Zeus, but Poseidon, god of the seas and earthquakes. He was worshipped more in a cthonic (earth/underworld) context than the oceans however. Zeus's significance as a sky god came after the bronze age collapse. So, with a pod after the collapse, how do we keep poseidon on top of the heap, and how does culture develop? Wheather other gods make the shifts of otl is up to you

Just to make sure this is clear- this question is about the mythology

 

[stevej713]

In my opinion, ancient Greek culture and society influenced mythology, not the other way around. Most of what we know in regards to the particular lore of Greek mythology comes from classical Greek and Roman writers who considered knowledge of mythology to be a mark of good education. Most of the stories they wrote could hardly be applied to what the common man or woman believed in more ancient times. For example, one would interpret an intense storm or earthquake to be an indication of a god's wrath, or the birth of a healthy child to represent a god's favor, etc. etc. Whether one particular god slept with another god or ate another god would vary considerably from the fables of one town to another. I personally don't think there would be any meaningful changes to Greek culture if some poet or group of poets decided that one mythical figure had a higher or lower position on the mythical hierarchy.

 

[Conrad Von Hotzendork]

I disagree, the position of head God was a lot more important than just 'some poets said this guy is on top'. Notably Zeus' main epithet was Panhellenos indicating that he was worshipped by basically everybody. This was rare for Greek gods, only Aphrodite was as widely worshipped by all social classes. If Poseidon retains this association it might even change the nature of ancient Greek religion to be more based around caves and nautical phenomena to better help sacrifices reach the gods in this new version of the pantheon. The Greek world might look more heavily towards the oceans, and we would see a lot more emphasis on Cthotic overdraft were lost. It's possible we lose Hades because of this and Persephone is closer to her original incarnation.

 

[RedKing]

If Poseidon remains the King of the Gods could Rome focus on a navy and/or trade ittl?

 

[SunKing105]

If Poseidon remains the King of the Gods could Rome focus on a navy and/or trade ittl?

There is probably no Rome due to cumulative butterflies.

 

[KingOnTheEdge]

There is probably no Rome due to cumulative butterflies.

I'm not so sure, since while religion obviously shaped politics, the rise of powers like rome doesnt seem especially tied to it. Unless you achieve Poseidon Panhellenos via a pod involving migrations or one specific early city state pushing their cult into western anatolia where the Roman's maybe came from

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

I have to wonder about the underlying assumption here.

Zeus is the standard Indo-european chief God.

The Proto-Indo-European pantheon includes a number of securely reconstructed deities such as *Dyḗws Ph₂tḗr, the daylight-sky god; his consort *Dʰéǵʰōm, the earth mother; his daughter *H₂éwsōs, the dawn goddess; his sons the Divine Twins; and *Seh₂ul, a solar goddess. Some deities, like the weather god *Perkʷunos or the herding-god *Péh₂usōn,[note 2] are only attested in a limited number of traditions – Western (European) and Graeco-Aryan, respectively – and could therefore represent late additions that did not spread throughout the various Indo-European dialects.

Now, certainly it's possible for pantheons to rearrange, the Norse cognate is Tyr, of all people!!

It's entirely possible that Poseidon was a pre Indo-european God, there seems to be a lot of dispute on his origin, and that of his name.
Remember that the original Achaians were barbarian invaders into civilized lands, it's not surprising that they'd pick up local gods.

Given, however, that the later Greek invasions (Doric, ionic, aetolian) were barbarian invasions into the barbarous remains of a collapsed civilization, it's not surprising that they would keep more of their Indo-european roots, including the chief position of Zeus.

 

[stevej713]

I disagree, the position of head God was a lot more important than just 'some poets said this guy is on top'.

Agreed, hence my argument that you would need to change ancient Greece's history and culture before any relevant changes to mythology take place. Mythology is, after all, myth, as differentiated by religious practice. Without an authoritative body or set of sacred writings that turn belief into doctrine, religious beliefs become more fluid and tend to be influenced by one's environment and experiences. This is why worship of traditional Olympian gods was already in decline by the Hellenistic period, as the fundamentally different environment Greek colonists found themselves in altered their religious practices. It's naïve to say that if we somehow changed the minds of the Ancient Greeks to regard one god as higher than another, then that would drastically change the way they lived their lives. Their lives need to be changed first by some set of external conditions, and then their religious beliefs will change. So for instance, this question:

If Poseidon remains the King of the Gods could Rome focus on a navy and/or trade ittl?

is built on a faulty presupposition. Mythology had nothing to do with Rome's rise. Their culture was influenced by their particular religious practices, but their religious practices were ultimately influenced by their conditions, their history and their interactions with their neighbors.

 

[RedKing]

is built on a faulty presupposition. Mythology had nothing to do with Rome's rise. Their culture was influenced by their particular religious practices, but their religious practices were ultimately influenced by their history and their interactions with their neighbors.

Ah, so Rome will still be founded by Romulus, son of Mars. Although a more mercantile Rome akin to Venice would've been cool

 

[Conrad Von Hotzendork]

I have to wonder about the underlying assumption here.

Zeus is the standard Indo-european chief God.
...
Given, however, that the later Greek invasions (Doric, ionic, aetolian) were barbarian invasions into the barbarous remains of a collapsed civilization, it's not surprising that they would keep more of their Indo-european roots, including the chief position of Zeus.

The mistake you are making here though is your timeline for the proto-indo-European influence. The Greek pantheon even in the Mycenaean age, was far distant from the indo European prototype. Indeed the example you cite in Tyr shows that 'Sky God good' was not a hard and fast rule. Indeed the Rigveda shows this clearly, with the early texts predating the Mycenaean age honouring Indra and having Vishnu as a minor deity loosely associated with the afterlife and supporting heaven and earth. Yet by 900BCE Vishnu begins gaining prominence and retains it even through a lot of cultural shifts. Although earlier I don't see why Posedion couldn't perform a similar task through the dark ages to.retain his throne.