WI : Pope Pius III survived his gout?

GdwnsnHo

Banned
After the death of Alexander VI, Pope Pius III died after a 26-day Papacy.

What would have happened (particularly to Italy, and Cesare Borgia) if he had managed to survive for a decade - surviving his gout?
 
For a first it, means that Cardinal Giuliano della Rovere (OTL Pope Julius II) dies without rendering it impossible for the Borgias to retain their power over the Papal States.

Although, it will be a shame to miss the speech he gave on the day of his election, in which he declared

Pope Julius II said:
"I will not live in the same rooms as the Borgias lived. Alexander VI desecrated the Holy Church as none before. He usurped the papal power by the devil's aid, and I forbid under the pain of excommunication anyone to speak or think of Borgia again. His name and memory must be forgotten. It must be crossed out of every document and memorial. His reign must be obliterated. All paintings made of the Borgias or for them must be covered over with black crepe. All the tombs of the Borgias must be opened and their bodies sent back to where they belong - to Spain."

As for Cesare Borgia, who had been groomed from a young age (being Bishop of Pamplona at 15 and a cardinal at 18) I would wonder if Louis XII of France, would suggest to Pope Pius III, that he should give Cesare, a second chance at being a Cardinal, since on 17 August 1498, when Cesare became the first person in history to resign the cardinalate.

With Cardinal Borgia, by the side of Pope Pius, he would act as a regent to the pope while he is suffering with his gout.
 
But isn't Cesare Borgia currently a major Italian landholder? As in - Armies, Lands, etc?

Can you not be Pope and hold land and an army?

If any cardinals complain, he can put the army down as his personal protection after the assassination of his brother and say the land is being used for religious duties eg. a church or grave yard?
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
Can you not be Pope and hold land and an army?

If any cardinals complain, he can put the army down as his personal protection after the assassination of his brother and say the land is being used for religious duties eg. a church or grave yard?

I may have understated him

Duke, Count, Married, etc - unless his wife kicks the bucket and the Pope who voted to let him out of his Cardinalship puts him back into the red - I can't see him as Cardinal.
 
I may have understated him

Duke, Count, Married, etc - unless his wife kicks the bucket and the Pope who voted to let him out of his Cardinalship puts him back into the red - I can't see him as Cardinal.

His wife Charlotte of Albret, actually dies in 1514, aged 33/34, so if you can just have her die in 1507, instead of him.

If you have him take the red after his wife's death, after a "message from God" telling him to, I can't see Pope Pius III saying no to a man that has the French support and his own ... "personal protection" by his side.
 
You forgotten one thing: Cesare Borgia do not liked being in the church... And as Captain General of the Vatican Armies he has still a lot of power in the Papal States and if he can keep that and his title and lands as Duke of Romagna he will be always able to seroiusly influence the papal elections. As Duke of Romagna he has much more power of that he can have as Cardinal...

If Charlotte dies likely Cesare will remarry because he need a son as heir for better consolidate his power and state
 
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