WI: Poles take Berlin in '39 [pic]

No Munich Agreement (maybe different PM in the UK), the Allies go to war over Czechoslovakia, Poland decides to dogpile in to take Silesia at a later stage and push rapidly through northwest Germany while the Wehrmacht's forces are stationed mostly in the West.,
 
One of the big problems will be the Oder Quadrilateral, a series of deep and modern fortifications along the direct approach to Berlin. I can easily imagine the Polish Army (in a scenario where Poland is allied to Czechoslovakia and France) occupying East Prussia, Eastern Pomerania, and Silesia (with Breslau cut off and besieged), but the war would likely end in a coup against Hitler before the Poles can pivot against Berlin from the north or south.

You would need to essentially Morgenthau Germany to get a Polish occupation of Berlin (to be renamed Berlinsk, or perhaps Rydzgrod or Pilsudskowo), but given the apathy of the French and British in 1939, that’s near-ASB.
 
One of the big problems will be the Oder Quadrilateral, a series of deep and modern fortifications along the direct approach to Berlin. I can easily imagine the Polish Army (in a scenario where Poland is allied to Czechoslovakia and France) occupying East Prussia, Eastern Pomerania, and Silesia (with Breslau cut off and besieged), but the war would likely end in a coup against Hitler before the Poles can pivot against Berlin from the north or south.
I see what you mean, although I'm not sure the Oder Quad was built. I've this US document referencing it 'a series of deep and modern fortifications...' but also another reference saying it was started in 1934 and then stopped. Possibly a bit of bluff like the West Wall?
 
You would need to essentially Morgenthau Germany to get a Polish occupation of Berlin (to be renamed Berlinsk, or perhaps Rydzgrod or Pilsudskowo), but given the apathy of the French and British in 1939, that’s near-ASB.
I'll have to do a Hitler Rant where Steiner is lost because he can't find the quadrilateral on the map and then Hitler loses his shit because the Alien Space Bats are helping the Poles.
 
My impression was the Oder Quadrilateral was a system of trenches.

The propaganda of the time describes 'Maginot Line style' but the main defences seem to be C and D type pill boxes, the terrain and the rivers.

Plans actually called for the creation of the 'Oder Quadrilaeteral', which included the OWB (Oder-Warthe Bend) line, the Netze River on the north side, and the Oder River on the south side. However, few fortifications were actually built, but both river lines were defensible. The West side of the Oder Bridgehead only gained water defences in the form of the Oder and the old fortress of Kustrin in the northwest corner.

The Forts and Fortifications of Europe 1815-1945: The Central States ...
By J.E. Kaufmann, H.W. Kaufmann​
 
But i do wonder if these Polish tanks would be able to beat Germans tanks in combat.
I agree, the tankettes were outmoded by 1939. I couldn’t find 7tp tanks at the right angle. There are photos of destroyed Panzers from Poland. The Germans didn’t have it all their own way.
 
I agree, the tankettes were outmoded by 1939. I couldn’t find 7tp tanks at the right angle. There are photos of destroyed Panzers from Poland. The Germans didn’t have it all their own way.
Well you could always Photoshop the Soviet capturing the Reichstag into the Polish capture the Reichstag.
 
This could be an 'Army of occupation' after the combined armies of the 2nd Entente (France, Italy, Czechoslovakia, Poland and the UK) had fought the Germans to an armistice from 1938 - 1939 after border skirmishes with Czechoslovakia and later on with Italy who reacts negatively to the attempted Anschluss in early 1938

Basically a world where there was zero appeasement and having failed in his game of brinkmanship Hitler is disposed by a military coup and dies of a 9mm brain aneurysm when the combined forces of Europe turn against him

Faced with defeat on all fronts this military junta agrees to a limited occupation while 'democracy is restored'.

The Polish were simply the closest to Berlin - hence the picture

Of course in 1938 the German army was largely armed with Tankettes of the PZ1 and PZII variety while the Czechs had the T35 and T38, the Poles have the 7TP
 
But i do wonder if these Polish tanks would be able to beat Germans tanks in combat.

Half the German tanks of 1940 were inferior to two thirds of the French tanks of 1940, but the Germans won anyway.

To digress; In the old 1970s War Game 'Third Reich' the conquest of Poland was a pro forma event. There were a couple ideal moves that wiped the Polish army off the map and took Warsaw swiftly, with low losses to the German side.

...Usually. There was a one in thirty six chance of the dice rolls combination resulting in the destruction of the German players entire Panzerwaffe, and a fair chunk of the Luftwaffe. very rare but it happened occasionally. Experienced players laughed it off and rerolled the attacks. The usual assumption being the cost of rebuilding all those lost pieces crippled the German side to the point any long term victory prospects were in serious doubt.
 
How about Germany fails in some of its peaceful conquests ans the little entente get some good hits in from 1937-1939 allowing the poles to be first?
 
The propaganda of the time describes 'Maginot Line style' but the main defences seem to be C and D type pill boxes, the terrain and the rivers.

Plans actually called for the creation of the 'Oder Quadrilaeteral', which included the OWB (Oder-Warthe Bend) line, the Netze River on the north side, and the Oder River on the south side. However, few fortifications were actually built, but both river lines were defensible. The West side of the Oder Bridgehead only gained water defences in the form of the Oder and the old fortress of Kustrin in the northwest corner.

The Forts and Fortifications of Europe 1815-1945: The Central States ...
By J.E. Kaufmann, H.W. Kaufmann​

That clears things up a bit--I just mentioned it because it was on Wikipedia's map of the 1939 campaign.
 
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