WI: PLO takes over Jordan

What happens if during the Black September in 1970 the Palastine Liberation Organisation were able to defeat the Jordanian Armed Forces and take over the entirety of Jordan?
 
Israel won't let that happen, they'll invade stop that before King Hussein is dead.

Maybe not in 1970 (the mossad will be busy for sure), but when Yom Kippur War (1973) or this timeline version of it happens, Israel will go all out to finish the PLO state and install King Hussien (if he is still alive) or his succesor.

I think, the "New" Jordan will be a strong "friend" of Israel because the Arab States didn't helped them against the PLO.

Ps. What happens to all those Palestinians in other Arab States? They have just proved that they are a threat to anÿ Arab Goverment. Mayby the Arab States work together with Israel (the Enemy of my Enemy, is my Friend) in secret af course to free Jordan.
 
Imagine they capture the king alive, and keep him around as a figurehead, locked away 'for his own good'
 
What happens if during the Black September in 1970 the Palastine Liberation Organisation were able to defeat the Jordanian Armed Forces and take over the entirety of Jordan?

A PLO takeover would only have occurred if the Jordanian armed forces, or enough of them, had turned against Hussein and killed him. The PLO couldn't succeed by itself; that's why it needed Syrian intervention. The problem was, Israel was poised to intervene if the Jordanians couldn't hold them back. The RJAF's F-5s routed the Syrians.
If the PLO had taken over in 1970, Jordan would've received a lot of Soviet arms and participated in the joint arab attack at the start of the '73 war. That might've cost Israel the Golan since it would be reluctant to send the 7th armored brigade there just prior to the war had Jordan seemed poised to attack with big, Soviet equipped forces.
 
A PLO takeover would only have occurred if the Jordanian armed forces, or enough of them, had turned against Hussein and killed him. The PLO couldn't succeed by itself; that's why it needed Syrian intervention. The problem was, Israel was poised to intervene if the Jordanians couldn't hold them back. The RJAF's F-5s routed the Syrians.
If the PLO had taken over in 1970, Jordan would've received a lot of Soviet arms and participated in the joint arab attack at the start of the '73 war. That might've cost Israel the Golan since it would be reluctant to send the 7th armored brigade there just prior to the war had Jordan seemed poised to attack with big, Soviet equipped forces.

Though a PLO takeover probably butterflies away the '73 war as we know it because as you noted, Israel was poised to intervene if Syria's intervention actually helped the PLO to takeover Jordan. So we get the next major middle east war in 1970 in Jordan between Israel and their royalist Jordanian allies and Syria and their PLO allies. If Israel is successful then there is no PLO takeover (except maybe briefly before the Israeli intervention) and Syria is probably heavily crippled militarily (which might butterfly away her participation in any Egyptian attempt at war in 1973....leaving Israel with only one front to concentrate on really). If Israel fails, then there is a PLO takeover of Jordan but more importantly Israel's armed forces were defeated in Jordan by the Syrians and PLO, which likely makes the Egyptians more keen on pursuing a liberation of Sinai and Syria keen on getting back the Golans (not to mention the now Palestine-Jordan keen on getting back the West Bank and Gaza if not all of old Mandatory Palestine. What are the chances then that Israel seriously considers using its nukes in the next war if Egypt/Syria/Palestine-Jordan actually manage to push very deep into pre-1967 Israeli territory and another defeat looks imminent?
 
For the Israelis not to interfere in the Jordanian civil war of 1970, the PLO would have to kill the king/royal family early in the conflict. Without him the the Israelis would not have anyone to back. The Syrian aid to the PLO would have to be just vocal and some arms smuggling. If the Israelis see troops or aircraft heading south, then it's war with Syria on Jordanian soil. The Soviets , British and Americans are unlikely to contribute much. The British have no puppet, the Americans are in Vietnam and the Soviets are concerned about the Chinese. I suspect the Israelis will win. The PLO leadership killed or exiled and local Palestinian leaders ( nuissebis?) are installed as leader of the re-renamed Palestine. This may prevent the 1973 war depending on how badly mauled the Syrians get and if the USSR resupplies them. I would not expect mass expulsions but possible compensated relocations as the border between Israel and palestine are hashed out. Probably the Western Jordan valley and the hilltops with the Aquifers get annexed to Israel.
 
Though a PLO takeover probably butterflies away the '73 war as we know it because as you noted, Israel was poised to intervene if Syria's intervention actually helped the PLO to takeover Jordan.

But I envisaged only one path to a PLO takeover--a pro-PLO revolt in the Jordanian armed forces and death or overthrow of Hussein. In that case, Syrian intervention wouldn't be necessary and Israel wouldn't have a pretext to intervene.

So we get the next major middle east war in 1970 in Jordan between Israel and their royalist Jordanian allies and Syria and their PLO allies. If Israel is successful then there is no PLO takeover (except maybe briefly before the Israeli intervention) and Syria is probably heavily crippled militarily (which might butterfly away her participation in any Egyptian attempt at war in 1973

Syria did suffer high losses in 1970, largely due to RJAF F-5s. Things wouldn't have been too bad for Syria if the fighting was confined to Jordan and the Syrians withdrew without pouring in reinforcements. In the OTL, Assad didn't commit his air force to the fighting.

If Israel fails, then there is a PLO takeover of Jordan but more importantly Israel's armed forces were defeated in Jordan by the Syrians and PLO,

Highly unlikely. True Karamah didn't go spectacularly well for the IDF but they almost certainly would've won in 1970.
 
But I envisaged only one path to a PLO takeover--a pro-PLO revolt in the Jordanian armed forces and death or overthrow of Hussein. In that case, Syrian intervention wouldn't be necessary and Israel wouldn't have a pretext to intervene.


Ah! Sorry. I misunderstood.

Yes in that case Hussein's goose is thoroughly cooked
 

Deleted member 109224

Assuming they take over without Syrian Intervention...

The PLO won't be exiled to Lebanon, either stopping or delaying that Civil War.

If Jordan is proclaimed Palestine (or East Palestine), I expect other Arab countries are going to start kicking out Palestinian Refugees (whom they pretty much keep/kept in Apartheid-like conditions). Meanwhile they're going to claim (at the very least) the West Bank and Gaza as territories of theirs that are occupied. At most they'll say everything from the River to the Sea is occupied territory.

Israel isn't going to hand over the West Bank to Arafat and Israel isn't going to expel the population of the West Bank, so that's going to continue to be a festering sore. The Israelis were okay with handing off the West Bank to Jordan OTL so long as it was demilitarized. I don't see them trusting the PLO with such an arrangement.

If the King survives and escapes, maybe the Israelis could put *him* in charge of the West Bank. If they stick the King in Ramallah and tell him "here this is yours now" based on preexisting Jordanian claims that weren't abandoned OTL until 1988, that's a solution for them (the only issue is that such a polity would probably continue to claim the East Bank). Levi Eshol looked at the prospect of establishing an Arab-Israeli Federation after the 6-Day War, with Israel being the only one with a military but he couldn't find a partner. The Hashemites in Ramallah could serve as that partner here perhaps.

There's gonna be refugees from a PLO-run Jordan. Hijazis, Circassians, Armenians, etc.
 
But I envisaged only one path to a PLO takeover--a pro-PLO revolt in the Jordanian armed forces and death or overthrow of Hussein. In that case, Syrian intervention wouldn't be necessary and Israel wouldn't have a pretext to intervene.

Unless the PLO immediately disavows its own charter about destroying Israel the Israelis don't need a pretext.
 

jocay

Banned
It would be a tad ironic if the Hashemite king and his supporters ends up exiled in the West Bank which is propped up as a puppet state controlled by Israel while OTL Jordan becomes (East) Palestine.
 
The Arab population in the West Bank and Gaza are liable to be expelled if the PLO declares a Palestinian state in Jordan given Israel now has the excuse of a Palestinian state they can be sent to. Any open intervention or reinstalling of the monarchy by Israel would discredit it.
 
The Arab population in the West Bank and Gaza are liable to be expelled if the PLO declares a Palestinian state in Jordan given Israel now has the excuse of a Palestinian state they can be sent to.

Forcible expulsion would probably cost a lot of lives and incur the disapproval of the US and most everyone else.

Any open intervention or reinstalling of the monarchy by Israel would discredit it.


Indeed. No arab regime could expect to survive if it owed its existence to Israel.
 

Nephi

Banned
Assuming they take over without Syrian Intervention...

The PLO won't be exiled to Lebanon, either stopping or delaying that Civil War.

If Jordan is proclaimed Palestine (or East Palestine), I expect other Arab countries are going to start kicking out Palestinian Refugees (whom they pretty much keep/kept in Apartheid-like conditions). Meanwhile they're going to claim (at the very least) the West Bank and Gaza as territories of theirs that are occupied. At most they'll say everything from the River to the Sea is occupied territory.

Israel isn't going to hand over the West Bank to Arafat and Israel isn't going to expel the population of the West Bank, so that's going to continue to be a festering sore. The Israelis were okay with handing off the West Bank to Jordan OTL so long as it was demilitarized. I don't see them trusting the PLO with such an arrangement.

If the King survives and escapes, maybe the Israelis could put *him* in charge of the West Bank. If they stick the King in Ramallah and tell him "here this is yours now" based on preexisting Jordanian claims that weren't abandoned OTL until 1988, that's a solution for them (the only issue is that such a polity would probably continue to claim the East Bank). Levi Eshol looked at the prospect of establishing an Arab-Israeli Federation after the 6-Day War, with Israel being the only one with a military but he couldn't find a partner. The Hashemites in Ramallah could serve as that partner here perhaps.

There's gonna be refugees from a PLO-run Jordan. Hijazis, Circassians, Armenians, etc.

Now that could be interesting Jordan an Israeli puppet in all but name, a monarchy that eventually comes to control the Gaza strip as well.

Minorities from Jordan proper as well as other parts of the middle east are settled here.

The former Jordan refers to itself as Palestine it claims the entire territory of Israel and Jordan.

Jordan claims the former territory, Gaza is given as "compensation" officially for territorial losses, a highway connecting the West Bank to the Gaza strip is officially part of their territory as well.

Israel and Jordan use the same currency, however printed in Arabic in Jordan, Hebrew in Israel.
 
Then they have "Palestine", which ends their claim to not have a country. Middle East conflict solved.
Not going to happen. Even if they have a new country to control, a lot of the radicals will try and keep the war going with Israel. Plus, Israel would see its neighbor with the longest border become hostile, something which would terrify them as they can't cover the whole border. Plus, none of the neighboring countries would let the PLO keep Jordan; its existence as a semi-neutral state benefits too many people.
A PLO takeover would only have occurred if the Jordanian armed forces, or enough of them, had turned against Hussein and killed him. The PLO couldn't succeed by itself; that's why it needed Syrian intervention. The problem was, Israel was poised to intervene if the Jordanians couldn't hold them back. The RJAF's F-5s routed the Syrians.
If the PLO had taken over in 1970, Jordan would've received a lot of Soviet arms and participated in the joint arab attack at the start of the '73 war. That might've cost Israel the Golan since it would be reluctant to send the 7th armored brigade there just prior to the war had Jordan seemed poised to attack with big, Soviet equipped forces.
With a hostile Jordan, the 1973 war would take a much more different path. With the IDF expending resources to take out PLO power in Jordan, it would be mobilized even on Yom Kippur, but the constant drain would make it more vulnerable to Egyptian-Syrian assault and the retaking of Sinai would be unlikely.
But I envisaged only one path to a PLO takeover--a pro-PLO revolt in the Jordanian armed forces and death or overthrow of Hussein. In that case, Syrian intervention wouldn't be necessary and Israel wouldn't have a pretext to intervene.
That's.... incredibly unlikely. The Arab Legion is an odd case in being a monarchist rather than national army, with an emphasis on serving the King rather than the nation. That's changed somewhat recently, but for the most part, stability of the country relies on a strong, stable monarchy, so the army would be loyal to the King either way.

To put it another way, the chances of a successful full PLO infiltration of the Arab Legion are so incredibly small you'd have better luck winning the lottery two years in a row.

But yes, assuming the PLO can weaken or disrupt the military command, it would put the monarch in a really bad place.
Syria did suffer high losses in 1970, largely due to RJAF F-5s. Things wouldn't have been too bad for Syria if the fighting was confined to Jordan and the Syrians withdrew without pouring in reinforcements. In the OTL, Assad didn't commit his air force to the fighting.
Also, IAF planes started flying around near the border with Irbid in the north, a clear message to the Syrians that if they intervened, the Israelis would take as a sign that they should get involved as well.
Assuming they take over without Syrian Intervention...

The PLO won't be exiled to Lebanon, either stopping or delaying that Civil War.

If Jordan is proclaimed Palestine (or East Palestine), I expect other Arab countries are going to start kicking out Palestinian Refugees (whom they pretty much keep/kept in Apartheid-like conditions). Meanwhile they're going to claim (at the very least) the West Bank and Gaza as territories of theirs that are occupied. At most they'll say everything from the River to the Sea is occupied territory.

Israel isn't going to hand over the West Bank to Arafat and Israel isn't going to expel the population of the West Bank, so that's going to continue to be a festering sore. The Israelis were okay with handing off the West Bank to Jordan OTL so long as it was demilitarized. I don't see them trusting the PLO with such an arrangement.

If the King survives and escapes, maybe the Israelis could put *him* in charge of the West Bank. If they stick the King in Ramallah and tell him "here this is yours now" based on preexisting Jordanian claims that weren't abandoned OTL until 1988, that's a solution for them (the only issue is that such a polity would probably continue to claim the East Bank). Levi Eshol looked at the prospect of establishing an Arab-Israeli Federation after the 6-Day War, with Israel being the only one with a military but he couldn't find a partner. The Hashemites in Ramallah could serve as that partner here perhaps.

There's gonna be refugees from a PLO-run Jordan. Hijazis, Circassians, Armenians, etc.
The Lebanese Civil War was going to happen anyways, but it would certainly have been delayed without PLO presence. They were already treating the Palestinians pretty shit even before this, so things would probably get worse - then again, the excessive brutality might just be the trigger to finally blow the powder keg of Lebanese ethnic strife.

But yes, they'd consider Jordan 'occupied territory', and we'd have the bitter irony of displaced people occupying other lands.[/QUOTE]
 
With a hostile Jordan, the 1973 war would take a much more different path. With the IDF expending resources to take out PLO power in Jordan,

It's likely that three years after a PLO takeover Jordan would be Soviet armed and would participate in the opening attack by entering the West Bank. The Israelis would have to give the Jordanian attack priority, and this would slow reinforcements to Golan, especially. The battalion of upgunned Shermans (originally facing Jordan in OTL) which moved to Golan overnight October 6-7 and stopped the 5th infantry division wouldn't have been available so soon, and Syrian forces probably would've reached the southernmost entrance to the Golan, perhaps the bridges as well. Dislodging them could've been slower, tougher and costlier.


That's.... incredibly unlikely. The Arab Legion is an odd case in being a monarchist rather than national army, with an emphasis on serving the King rather than the nation. That's changed somewhat recently, but for the most part, stability of the country relies on a strong, stable monarchy, so the army would be loyal to the King either way.

To put it another way, the chances of a successful full PLO infiltration of the Arab Legion are so incredibly small you'd have better luck winning the lottery two years in a row.

But yes, assuming the PLO can weaken or disrupt the military command, it would put the monarch in a really bad place.

I know there's no way the PLO could've influenced the Arab Legion via infiltration. What might've been possible, though, is some ambitious commander getting ideas. Deeply concerned about Syrian intervention, and thinking he might become the new head of state, the officer might've led his troops against Hussein instead, and reached an accomodation with the PLO.

Also, IAF planes started flying around near the border with Irbid in the north, a clear message to the Syrians that if they intervened, the Israelis would take as a sign that they should get involved as well.

They did get involved and were stopped by Jordan's own planes.
 
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