WI Pilate spares Jesus?

Not only possible but probable.

By the way, the hand that wields the blade?

Saul.

To do it, he's got to get close to Christ, perhaps he "falls in" with the desciples and follows Him for a time, actually hears him speak, witnesses miracles and at the moment of truth finds himself conflicted as to what to do.

He does it, he's struck blind, he has his "Road to Damascus" moment under different circumstances, but ultimately, he'll still end up Paul, except, perhaps, THIS Paul that writes a Gospel...

Unless, of course, he's killed by Simon Peter immediately thereafter. If you remember, Peter carried a sword and used it to defend Christ when they came to take him away for trial (he cut off a man's ear before Christ stopped him). In this ATL, Saul/Paul suddenly attacks Christ and stabs him to death. Simon Peter draws his sword and kills Saul. No Pauline Christianity at all.
 
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Neither was Jesus. In any conclusive manner that can be ascertained by historical records.

Well, that's not surprising, given that there is NOBODY in history who can be "conclusively ascertained by historical records" to be a god.

When doing alternate history, you have to put aside any religious opinions and beliefs. You must do this kind of thing through an agnostic point of view. We all do.

Not true. I, myself, am a Christian. I therefore view history through that lens, and my timelines reflect that. It doesn't matter what the POD is, I am convinced that Jesus would have been born, and would have been killed, and a great religion would have arisen as a result.

Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that the religion itself develops the same way as in OTL. In my view, there are a small number of "core beliefs" of Christianity which are common to all Christian faiths. Those beliefs...that Jesus was the Son of God, that he was sent to earth to die for mankind's sin, and that by believing in him, and accepting the Grace of salvation which Jesus provided through his death, one may gain eternal life...are what makes a faith "Christian." Everything else that has grown up over the last 2,000 years is purely window-dressing, excess baggage which has accumulated as fallible humans added to the basic creed. Some of it may be divinely inspired, but I venture to say most probably isn't. Therefore, even for a Christian, there is plenty of leeway to play with the development of Christianity in an alternate timeline, and plenty of butterflies which would occur as a result of those changes.

You certainly need not take an agnostic or atheistic point of view, if you don't want to. It does not make your alternate history any less valid.
 
We aren't talking Zeitgeist though...we're talking facts. The only historical reference to Jesus, with in his life time, (aside from the New Testament) is Josephus and even that reference was proven to be a fraud, a result of later editing...

That is a minority view. The great majority of modern scholars agree that Josephus did write about Jesus, although the passage which came down to us has been corrupted by later editing and that Jesus was, in fact, a historical figure.
 

Stalker

Banned
All I know immediately is that Pilate's foolishness may cost him his head or, at least, his carreer. Caiaphas would report him to Tiberius as he'has threatened, and the Old Goat would take measures is hehears that the 13th procurator had released a prisoner accused of provoking revolt.
The rest needs further deeper investigation.
 
Though historians seem to disagree on the matter of whether there is evidence that Jesus actually existed or whether he's just part of a biblical story or allegory, for the sake of argument I will assume that Jesus was a real person who lived about 2000 years ago in Judea and was crucified by Pilate. As with all historical events in the realm of alternate history, the events surrounding the crucifixion could certainly have gone a different way, allowing him to escape Pilate's wrath. Since I know little about the specifics, I can't say with detail exactly how this could happen, but I can surmise as to the consequences. If he isn't martyred, Christianity goes down the crapper, or at least Christianity as we know it, since Christian mythology is founded on the assumption that Jesus was crucified. That also means Islam would be butterflied away, since Jesus was long dead when Islam evolved from Judeo-Christian beliefs. That might leave Judaism as the dominant religion in the western Old World, assuming no other religions or variants on Judaism become more popular. Buddhism and Hinduism would still be around, as they predate Christianity, but with all the butterflies springing forth from a POD nearly 2000 years ago, there could be any number of unrecognizable superstitious belief systems today. We definitely wouldn't be using the Christian calendar; perhaps the Jewish or Buddhist ones would become the standard. I have no idea whether the absence of Christianity and Islam would eventually promote the prevalence of secularism or not, but it's possible that we might have a more secular, progressive society today than in OTL.

I'd like to say "Kudos" to Bill Cameron and Blue Max for speaking up so rationally for secularism (especially in the context of alternate history) earlier in this thread. And for the record, I believe that all religions possess an equal amount of validity.
 
There would probably be no Christianity and maybe even evidence of Christ outside the Bible and the Koran (in the latter Christ doesn't die on the cross). There is a theory(from I think possibly the Hiram Key) that far far from being peacefully inclined Jesus was preaching revolution and was a potential messiah whilst the Jewish heirarchy wanted peacefuyl coexistence with Rome). Maybe there would have been an earlier Masada. However it is possible that Islam would have become the predfominant religion of the Roman Empire with no rivalry from Christianity
 
We definitely wouldn't be using the Christian calendar; perhaps the Jewish or Buddhist ones would become the standard. I have no idea whether the absence of Christianity and Islam would eventually promote the prevalence of secularism or not, but it's possible that we might have a more secular, progressive society today than in OTL.

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Eh? No we would more likely use the Julian Calender (The Gregorian calender came up in 1582. and the Julians was still used up untill the 20th century!!!) much longer, but it seems likely would eventually reform it to a Gregorian style to make for the leap years and such. Maybe it would be called something different, maybe the Augustine Calender?

Instead of starting it from Christ's birth we would likely start it from the founding of the Rome.
 
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Eh? No we would more likely use the Julian Calender (The Gregorian calender came up in 1582. and the Julians was still used up untill the 20th century!!!) much longer, but it seems likely would eventually reform it to a Gregorian style to make for the leap years and such. Maybe it would be called something different, maybe the Augustine Calender?

Instead of starting it from Christ's birth we would likely start it from the founding of the Rome.

By Christian calendar, I just meant one which uses the supposed year of Jesus's birth as its starting point. If the Julian calendar was invented prior to the Common Era, what did it use as its starting point? If Rome converts to Judaism in TTL as opposed to Christianity, then perhaps the Jewish calendar would supplant the Julian one.
 

Stephen

Banned
I see no reason why it is inevitable for some kind of universal cult to take over the late Roman Empire. The cult of Mithras relies on its exclusivity and secrecy for its appeal. Sol Invictus alhtough likely to be adopted by an emperor is too intelectual it does not have enough myths and legends to appeal to the masses. Without a universalist ideology to replace Roman nationalism the Roman empire will probably fall apart at about the time of Constantine. Judaism is not a proselytising religion by nature rather it is an ethno nationalist religion for "gods chosen people" in fact jews will likely be less widespread than OTL as when tribalism reaserts itself with the dissolution of empire, whithout being refered to as "gods chosen people" in your holly book they will just be a strange foreign tribe trespassing on your teritory.
 
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