WI: Philippine national language based in Ermiteño/Chavacano de Ermita language

[ramones1986]

Here's a little information about Chavacano de Ermita language:

Ermitaño (or Ermiteño) was a variant of Chavacano language once spoken in the district of Ermita in Manila. During the 19th and 20th century, it was the second widely-used language (after Spanish) in the metropolitan area of Manila, especially among intellectuals (especially among mestizos and criollos). However, American rule and its imposition of English and the aftermath of World War II endangered this language into extinction.

In 1937, the Institute of National Language decided that Tagalog should be the basis of the future Philippine national language, as proclaimed in EO 134 which was signed by President Manuel Luis Quezón. In effect, it started the development of a Tagalog-based national language (later called Filipino/Pilipino). However, controversy still exist until now, with Filipino remained synonymous with Tagalog, which is true.

If the INL chose Ermitaño/Chavacano de Ermita as the basis of the future national language, how it will affect the development of this language? How it influence the relations between the different ethno-linguistic groups of the Philippines?


Thanks!

 

[kasumigenx]

Here's a little information about Chavacano de Ermita language:


In 1937, the Institute of National Language decided that Tagalog should be the basis of the future Philippine national language, as proclaimed in EO 134 which was signed by President Manuel Luis Quezón. In effect, it started the development of Tagalog-based national language (later called Filipino/Pilipino). Still, controversy still exist until now, with Filipino remained synonymous with Tagalog, which is true.

If the INL chose Ermitaño/Chavacano de Ermita as the basis of the future national language, how it will affect the development of this language? How it influence the relations between the different ethno-linguistic groups of the Philippines?

Thanks!

Chavacano de Ermita is just like our OTL Taglish just replace the Spanish with English, I think the colloquial/ low register language would end up like Taglish but more Spanish in flavor.

 

[ramones1986]

Chavacano de Ermita is just like our OTL Taglish just replace the Spanish with English, I think the colloquial/ low register language would end up like Taglish but more Spanish in flavor.

The difference between Ermitaño/Chavacano de Ermita and Taglish is that the former is a creole language of its own, while the latter is a code-switch.

 

[kasumigenx]

The difference between Ermitaño/Chavacano de Ermita and Taglish is that the former is a creole language of its own, while the latter is a code-switch.

Originally, that is and also Taglish is gradually in a process of starting to form a new creole language, some of the Speakers of it can't even speak proper tagalog and some can't even speak proper english.

 

[ramones1986]

Bumping...

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

You need a strong Hispanophone population along with a weaker "benevolent assimilation" effect on the Filipino population. But on the positive side, there won't be accusations of any Filipino of being a Tagalista.

 

[Joseph Solis in Australia]

Ermitaño like Tagalog is not even acceptable to majority non-Tagalogs. It is just a basically Tagalog-Spanish creole.

The right way should have been the Standard Spanish as the national language of the Philippines.

 

[ramones1986]

Bumping for more

 

[The Ubbergeek]

Ermitaño like Tagalog is not even acceptable to majority non-Tagalogs. It is just a basically Tagalog-Spanish creole.

The right way should have been the Standard Spanish as the national language of the Philippines.

But one could counters that at least, Tagalog is a 'native' language and not a colonial power legacy like Spanish or ENglish.

 

[Francisco Cojuanco]

But one could counters that at least, Tagalog is a 'native' language and not a colonial power legacy like Spanish or ENglish.

And it was a lingua franca in the Christian parts of the country (and not just a regional lingua franca, like Ilocano in the North, and, like Tuscan in Italy, it had the largest literary tradition in the country aside from Spanish itself, which would have been discouraged by both hardcore nationalistx the American rulers (though it persisted into the early 60s as a declining language of academia and the Church). Chavacano de Ermita would have been unacceptable from a nationalist standpoint as too Hispanified.

Strictly speaking, though, the national language is Pilipino, which is based on the variety of Tagalog spoken in Manila. Which is OK, I guess, though I have some issues with spelling reform.

 

[Joseph Solis in Australia]

But one could counters that at least, Tagalog is a 'native' language and not a colonial power legacy like Spanish or ENglish.

But Tagalog is not the only 'native' language in the Philippines. It only happened that it was the primary language of the capital, Manila, that's why it became the basis of the 'Filipino' language. Tagalog as a literary language was less known among non-Tagalogs like Cebuanos, Ilocanos, Bicolanos, Ilonggos, Waray due to logistical concerns, being an archipelago and mountainous at the same time. There were several literary works in non-Tagalog too.

Heck, even as late as in the 1970s and 1980s, the primary language for national broadcasts was in English, no wonder older Filipinos right now are more proficient in English that the younger ones. The full-scale Tagalization started during Marcos presidency and deepened by his various successors. By mid-1990s, all major national broadcasts was fully in Tagalog not English.

Tuscan, way long before the unification, was already the de facto lingua franca among Italians from North to South, which was not the Philippine case for Tagalog.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

But Tagalog is not the only 'native' language in the Philippines. It only happened that it was the primary language of the capital, Manila, that's why it became the basis of the 'Filipino' language. Tagalog as a literary language was less known among non-Tagalogs like Cebuanos, Ilocanos, Bicolanos, Ilonggos, Waray due to logistical concerns, being an archipelago and mountainous at the same time. There were several literary works in non-Tagalog too.

Heck, even as late as in the 1970s and 1980s, the primary language for national broadcasts was in English, no wonder older Filipinos right now are more proficient in English that the younger ones. The full-scale Tagalization started during Marcos presidency and deepened by his various successors. By mid-1990s, all major national broadcasts was fully in Tagalog not English.

Tuscan, way long before the unification, was already the de facto lingua franca among Italians from North to South, which was not the Philippine case for Tagalog.

Not to mention that I get these messages from people in facebook about Imperial Manila and the Tagalistas wanting to impose Tagalog on the non-Tagalogs.

 

[Joseph Solis in Australia]

Not to mention that I get these messages from people in facebook about Imperial Manila and the Tagalistas wanting to impose Tagalog on the non-Tagalogs.

Those people are just misguided with the flawed educational system for the past 27 years by naively think that if you cannot speak Tagalog at all, you are not a Filipino.

 

[ramones1986]

Additional question:
How this alternate Philippine national language will affect the movie and music industry, as well as the media (print, radio and television broadcasting)?

 

[kasumigenx]

But one could counters that at least, Tagalog is a 'native' language and not a colonial power legacy like Spanish or ENglish.

Those people are just misguided with the flawed educational system for the past 27 years by naively think that if you cannot speak Tagalog at all, you are not a Filipino.

I would have preferred if Kapampangan remained dominant the Spanish resettlement of people from Laguna to Nueva Ecija and Bulacan was the reason why Tagalog is dominant, this would mean that if Manila become the capital secession of the Southern provinces would be more likely, Kapampangan is alien to the Visayans, I think it is likely that Kapampangan would absorb the Ilocano migration to Nueva Ecija and Tarlac causing some its dialects to have a heavy Ilocano influences.

 

[Francisco Cojuanco]

Not to mention that I get these messages from people in facebook about Imperial Manila and the Tagalistas wanting to impose Tagalog on the non-Tagalogs.

But the seeds were sown during the 30s and 40s. The intent of the Government from independence pretty much was to supplant Spanish with Tagalog. The exceptions historically were academia and the Church (which used Spanish) and broadcasting (which was in English) Yes, the Spanish resettled the Tagalogs around the country, that's why it's a more widespread lingua franca than Ilocano or Pampangan. So it had part the role of Tuscan, part that of Langue d'oil in France.

To get your OTL you would need to have the Spanish stay for longer, or at least avert American occupation. But in such cases it would be more likely that Spanish itself would be the lingua franca and an official language (similar to how Spanish spread in Latin America after independence).

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

You need to prevent the Philippine Revolution from happening though.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

But Tagalog is not the only 'native' language in the Philippines. It only happened that it was the primary language of the capital, Manila, that's why it became the basis of the 'Filipino' language. Tagalog as a literary language was less known among non-Tagalogs like Cebuanos, Ilocanos, Bicolanos, Ilonggos, Waray due to logistical concerns, being an archipelago and mountainous at the same time. There were several literary works in non-Tagalog too.

Heck, even as late as in the 1970s and 1980s, the primary language for national broadcasts was in English, no wonder older Filipinos right now are more proficient in English that the younger ones. The full-scale Tagalization started during Marcos presidency and deepened by his various successors. By mid-1990s, all major national broadcasts was fully in Tagalog not English.

Tuscan, way long before the unification, was already the de facto lingua franca among Italians from North to South, which was not the Philippine case for Tagalog.

BTW on Tuscan - base of modern Italian... You are wrong - only 2,5% even maybe of ALL italians spoke it, out of it's range. Or so I was told.

There is also a lot of legends on the Unification of Italy, who may have been not quite what happened, but it's another topic...

 

[Francisco Cojuanco]

You need to prevent the Philippine Revolution from happening though.

Or delay it (perhaps Madrid is less harsh on the Gomburza martyrs? I mean the Church kinda was angry with Madrid over that one, given all the priests got was a civil trial and not a canonical one).

 

[ramones1986]

Bumping...