okay...a bump...
Only because I think this still has potential for further exploration....
Assume for arguements sake and in the interests of furthering discussion
After Russian defeat and Peter's death at Narva
1/Russia enters ceasefire agreement with Sweden similiar to D-N designed to expire 1710. Russia evacuates its border fortresses for the duration of the ceasefire facing Ingermanland and the Baltic provinces. There are no Russian Raids during this period to devastate the region.
2./ Despite attempts to gain an alliance for one side or the other in the Spanish Succession War...French diplomats fail ( Karl was not really a fan of Louis XIV anyway). Karl turns his attention fully on P-L and ousting Augustus.
3/Alexei's mother assumes the regency in Russia, because of her disdain for Peter she aligns with the more reactionary elements at court opposed to modernization and its pace slows somewhat.
4/ Augustus is ousted as per OTl 1706 With Karl placing his own man Stanislaus Lecszynski on the throne. After securing the rights of the Silesian protestants and the guranantee of the Emporer not to support further attempts by Augustus to regain the P-L throne, Karl agrees to refrain from entertaining offers from France to join their coalition ( I mean really what is there for Sweden anyways).
the War of the Hapsburgs and the Maritime powers vs France/Spain continues with minimal changes.
5/ Swedish diplomats attempt to take the measure of the diplomatic windsfrom 1707 onwards and reach a defensive accord with the Ottomans to curb any Russian revanchism.
6/ the War of the Spanish succession entering its final stages the young Alexei takes the throne (1710/11 say actually probably a bit earlier (1705) but hey) D-N/Russia and Saxony realign for one last go at undoing Karl's Baltic/East European order.
Sweden/P-L/Ottomans vs Russia, D-N, Saxony. Split between defending the north and the south Russian forces are again defeated and forced from the War. The primary Swedish effort has gone against Saxony in Poland and in the Baltic, Pommerania and Holtstein-Gottorp, against Denmark. Local Swedish and Lithuanian forces are sufficient to contain the Russians given their distractions in the south by the Ottomans.
Abdul, I could use some suggestions on what might occur there.....Your iput would be greatly appreciated.
End result no changes in the west with D-N...It is again forced from the war ( more because its objectives in Holstein-Gottorp are not met than anything else, it asks again for ceasefire.) D-N exits the war at the Status quo.
With D-N out of the fray....Swedish forces once again enter Saxony forcing Augustus to finally once and for all definitively abandon claims to P-L.
In the east, its allies forced out of the War once again Alexei's Russia asks for a definitive end and peace with the "Central powers, mind you P-L is not really a huge power at this point".
Russia cedes in perpetuity the border fortresses and the lands along the south shore of Lake Ladoga as far as Kexholm, as well as the those along the Baltic provinces and the lands of historic Pskov, in lieu of an indemnity. Would they obtain all of Russian Karelia and the Kola at this time as well?
The core of Novgorod though, occupied by Swedish forces is returned to Moscow.
P-L cedes Polish Livonia to Sweden but gains Kiev from Russia in its place.
Any thoughts on the south..Ottoman borders I am open to offers at this point as its not a strong point.
7/ 1725-28... Maria Lecszynska marries Aleksander Czartoryski, the "Familia" begins a gradual program of reform in P-L. Louis XV will marry someone else obviously...who is that likely to be? Maria is as bountiful with her successors for Aleksander as she was for Louis.
8/ No War of the Polish succession, but would there be something else in its stead?
9/ 1730's Charles VI is building support for his Pragmatic sanction ( non-interference in reforms of P-L as prid pro quo. Sweden apprehensive at P-L reforms but conscious of a need for the southern defensive alliance because of possible attempts by Russia and D-N to reconverge as a threat.
How does Sweden fair under Karl's continued rule during the interim and the lead up to Maria-Theresa's ascension? Lets assume for minimal butterfly effect that he has no heirs and the succession will eventually go to Charles Frederick or his heirs of Holstein-Gottorp, obviously there is no Anna Petrovna to marry. Assume however, though its a bit of a stretch that his heir still marries a Catherine of Anholt-Zerbst, though she is likely to be someone quite different here.
Assume Alexei's Russia has been somewhat conservative and inward looking in the aftermath of its twin defeats in the Northern War. Though events in the south might transpire differently so I would invite substantial input there.
He has married into the Russian nobility...so succession is far different...lets say Catherina Dolgorukova.
1740 Charles VI dies...does Frederick make his gambit....how do events go?
My own thinking was to have Sweden and P-L support M-T in place of Russia.
With the aim, should they win.....having P-L push its porders back eastward to regain Smolensk and Chernigov and acquire Prussia from B-P, should Frederick's gambit be defeated and M-T retain Silesia. Sweden would gain Kurland from P-L in compensation, and Karelia/Kola if they haven't already got it from Russia and East Pommerania from B-P, they may lose Bremen-Verden though to D-N who would probably side with Frederick and France seeing that the Swedish succession is likely to fall to Holstein-Gottorp. Britain and the Dutch will have a role to play here though.....
Only because I think this still has potential for further exploration....
Assume for arguements sake and in the interests of furthering discussion
After Russian defeat and Peter's death at Narva
1/Russia enters ceasefire agreement with Sweden similiar to D-N designed to expire 1710. Russia evacuates its border fortresses for the duration of the ceasefire facing Ingermanland and the Baltic provinces. There are no Russian Raids during this period to devastate the region.
2./ Despite attempts to gain an alliance for one side or the other in the Spanish Succession War...French diplomats fail ( Karl was not really a fan of Louis XIV anyway). Karl turns his attention fully on P-L and ousting Augustus.
3/Alexei's mother assumes the regency in Russia, because of her disdain for Peter she aligns with the more reactionary elements at court opposed to modernization and its pace slows somewhat.
4/ Augustus is ousted as per OTl 1706 With Karl placing his own man Stanislaus Lecszynski on the throne. After securing the rights of the Silesian protestants and the guranantee of the Emporer not to support further attempts by Augustus to regain the P-L throne, Karl agrees to refrain from entertaining offers from France to join their coalition ( I mean really what is there for Sweden anyways).
the War of the Hapsburgs and the Maritime powers vs France/Spain continues with minimal changes.
5/ Swedish diplomats attempt to take the measure of the diplomatic windsfrom 1707 onwards and reach a defensive accord with the Ottomans to curb any Russian revanchism.
6/ the War of the Spanish succession entering its final stages the young Alexei takes the throne (1710/11 say actually probably a bit earlier (1705) but hey) D-N/Russia and Saxony realign for one last go at undoing Karl's Baltic/East European order.
Sweden/P-L/Ottomans vs Russia, D-N, Saxony. Split between defending the north and the south Russian forces are again defeated and forced from the War. The primary Swedish effort has gone against Saxony in Poland and in the Baltic, Pommerania and Holtstein-Gottorp, against Denmark. Local Swedish and Lithuanian forces are sufficient to contain the Russians given their distractions in the south by the Ottomans.
Abdul, I could use some suggestions on what might occur there.....Your iput would be greatly appreciated.
End result no changes in the west with D-N...It is again forced from the war ( more because its objectives in Holstein-Gottorp are not met than anything else, it asks again for ceasefire.) D-N exits the war at the Status quo.
With D-N out of the fray....Swedish forces once again enter Saxony forcing Augustus to finally once and for all definitively abandon claims to P-L.
In the east, its allies forced out of the War once again Alexei's Russia asks for a definitive end and peace with the "Central powers, mind you P-L is not really a huge power at this point".
Russia cedes in perpetuity the border fortresses and the lands along the south shore of Lake Ladoga as far as Kexholm, as well as the those along the Baltic provinces and the lands of historic Pskov, in lieu of an indemnity. Would they obtain all of Russian Karelia and the Kola at this time as well?
The core of Novgorod though, occupied by Swedish forces is returned to Moscow.
P-L cedes Polish Livonia to Sweden but gains Kiev from Russia in its place.
Any thoughts on the south..Ottoman borders I am open to offers at this point as its not a strong point.
7/ 1725-28... Maria Lecszynska marries Aleksander Czartoryski, the "Familia" begins a gradual program of reform in P-L. Louis XV will marry someone else obviously...who is that likely to be? Maria is as bountiful with her successors for Aleksander as she was for Louis.
8/ No War of the Polish succession, but would there be something else in its stead?
9/ 1730's Charles VI is building support for his Pragmatic sanction ( non-interference in reforms of P-L as prid pro quo. Sweden apprehensive at P-L reforms but conscious of a need for the southern defensive alliance because of possible attempts by Russia and D-N to reconverge as a threat.
How does Sweden fair under Karl's continued rule during the interim and the lead up to Maria-Theresa's ascension? Lets assume for minimal butterfly effect that he has no heirs and the succession will eventually go to Charles Frederick or his heirs of Holstein-Gottorp, obviously there is no Anna Petrovna to marry. Assume however, though its a bit of a stretch that his heir still marries a Catherine of Anholt-Zerbst, though she is likely to be someone quite different here.
Assume Alexei's Russia has been somewhat conservative and inward looking in the aftermath of its twin defeats in the Northern War. Though events in the south might transpire differently so I would invite substantial input there.
He has married into the Russian nobility...so succession is far different...lets say Catherina Dolgorukova.
1740 Charles VI dies...does Frederick make his gambit....how do events go?
My own thinking was to have Sweden and P-L support M-T in place of Russia.
With the aim, should they win.....having P-L push its porders back eastward to regain Smolensk and Chernigov and acquire Prussia from B-P, should Frederick's gambit be defeated and M-T retain Silesia. Sweden would gain Kurland from P-L in compensation, and Karelia/Kola if they haven't already got it from Russia and East Pommerania from B-P, they may lose Bremen-Verden though to D-N who would probably side with Frederick and France seeing that the Swedish succession is likely to fall to Holstein-Gottorp. Britain and the Dutch will have a role to play here though.....
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