WI: Peter II of Russia PODs

What if Peter II of Russia was educated by his grandfather Peter I the Great? If I'm not wrong Peter the Great was notoriously mercurial; is it possible that he would have taken to raising the boy himself as some sort of "penance" for killing his own son?

With Peter II's death the direct male line of the Romanov's ended. Following Catherine I's death, he ascended to the throne but was kept under the influence of many members of the nobility and led a leisurely lifestyle, eventually dying of smallpox (I think) only three years later.

If he survived his illness, and/or perhaps took a more active interest in affairs of state, and/or drew away from his indolent lifestyle which discouraged hopes that he could be a good ruler, what could have resulted from a longer reign of Peter II?

No one else interested? Maybe I should put this in CaliBoy1990's thread, which I would like to, but I don't even have the most basic ideas regarding this topic.
 
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You would have to have him get over his Prussophilia, and actually seem like a Russian monarch in for him to last. This could rid Russia of the problems it gets with the Romanov's later on down the line.
 
You would have to have him get over his Prussophilia, and actually seem like a Russian monarch in for him to last. This could rid Russia of the problems it gets with the Romanov's later on down the line.
I think you've got the wrong Peter (III) instead of (II).
 
From what I can understand of Pyotr was that he had inherited his grandfather's taste for alcohol and women, but no sort of affinity for work. Peter the Great might've been a fratboy king, but he was driven, ambitious and understood the rudiments of governing. Pyotr was the fratboy, possibly minus the desireable skills/brains. But I could be wrong in thinking that his reign might be more of a petticoat regime than the three empresses who came after him combined.
 
This is why I think that if he'd been raised under Peter I. Peter II was quick-witted, but an apparently stubborn and a wayward boy, much like his grandfather. Despite these similarities, the emperor had no desire to learn to rule, unlike Peter the Great. A difference in upbringing might have made some difference. If he'd insisted on sitting in on government meetings, or been subject to less ruinous influence...

The problem with that is Pyotr II was 10 when his grandfather died. Not a lot of time to really influence the grandson. Supposedly his sister Natalia was a good influence on the young Pyotr II, so have her survive along with her brother and things could work out better. Truth is Pyotr II seemed to be a man who would always be led by advisers and women, not unlike Louis XV. The trick is to get capable people in positions of power.
 
The problem with that is Pyotr II was 10 when his grandfather died. Not a lot of time to really influence the grandson. Supposedly his sister Natalia was a good influence on the young Pyotr II, so have her survive along with her brother and things could work out better. Truth is Pyotr II seemed to be a man who would always be led by advisers and women, not unlike Louis XV. The trick is to get capable people in positions of power.
We've discussed this.
Peter II reign is likely to be pro-Austrian (first cousin to Maria Teresia after all), and Natalia had a reputation of being quick-witted girl, so she will really be a positive influence on her brother.
If the Dolgorukovs are overthrown, Peter's supposed bride is exposed to have an affair with a foreign envoy (she was far from faithful to the young emperor) and is exiled with the rest of her clan (not too bad guys, though overly ambitious, and wanted the same ploy the Morozovs did in 1640 with great-grandfather of little Petya Alexis I - distracting the ruler with hunts and handpicked girls who just happen to be their relatives, while they (Dolgorukovs) are running the show, then the likely de-facto Prime Minister is this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Osterman
Peter's governor and overall gifted and smart man, apparently well liked by Natalia. With her surviving he'll have the support of Emperor's sister over the Dolgorukovs.
 
Peter II has always been interesting because he took control at a time when Russia was at a crossroads. He could have continued to look to Russia as a European power as his grandfather did (and Catherine I and her successors did) or look to the East and the South and tried to take even more of Asia and the Middle East. The decision to relocated to the traditional capital of Moscow at the very least was a telling sign.

As far as Peter II personally, by all accounts he was a pleasure-loving prince more interested in women and wine and not ruling - but he was still a teenager. By the end of his life he had already discarded Menshikov who had tried to control him. He certainly seemed to have a mind of his own.

I think a lot depends on the survival of his sister Natalia, who was said to be the only person he really loved and who seemed to be level-headed by most accounts. If she survives - and so does he (so butterflying two death) then Peter II might become more responsible and/or Natalia and Elizabeth Petrovna (OTL Empress Elizabeth), who Peter II, was close to would be the powers behind the throne instead of the Dolgurkovs.

Given that Peter II and Natalia were first cousins of Maria Theresa I can see an Austrian-Russian alliance (which would mean Prussia is in deep trouble0 and a reign of Peter II would also remove Anna, the ill-fated Ivan VI, Elizabeth, the Prussia-phile Peter III and Catherine the Great from the throne. A different line of Romanovs would reign over Russia from Moscow, not St.Petersburg.
 
Peter II has always been interesting because he took control at a time when Russia was at a crossroads. He could have continued to look to Russia as a European power as his grandfather did (and Catherine I and her successors did) or look to the East and the South and tried to take even more of Asia and the Middle East. The decision to relocated to the traditional capital of Moscow at the very least was a telling sign.

As far as Peter II personally, by all accounts he was a pleasure-loving prince more interested in women and wine and not ruling - but he was still a teenager. By the end of his life he had already discarded Menshikov who had tried to control him. He certainly seemed to have a mind of his own.

I think a lot depends on the survival of his sister Natalia, who was said to be the only person he really loved and who seemed to be level-headed by most accounts. If she survives - and so does he (so butterflying two death) then Peter II might become more responsible and/or Natalia and Elizabeth Petrovna (OTL Empress Elizabeth), who Peter II, was close to would be the powers behind the throne instead of the Dolgurkovs.

Given that Peter II and Natalia were first cousins of Maria Theresa I can see an Austrian-Russian alliance (which would mean Prussia is in deep trouble0 and a reign of Peter II would also remove Anna, the ill-fated Ivan VI, Elizabeth, the Prussia-phile Peter III and Catherine the Great from the throne. A different line of Romanovs would reign over Russia from Moscow, not St.Petersburg.

I agree completely; Peter II had the potential to rule in his own right if guided properly. What do you think his policies would be? Would a weakened Prussia help Austria to solidify control over the HRE? Could Russia and Austria resolve their Balkan differences? (Of course, such differences would be tendered moot if Russia were to focus eastwards...)
 
What an interesting thread! I don't know if Peter the Great "educating" his grandson would have made much difference as Peter was only 9 when PtG died. However, assuming Peter II survived smallpox in 1730 I think a lot depends on whether he rejected the influence of the Dolgoruky family as he matured. As he was only 14 when he died he was still at the "living life for the moment and having fun" stage, but it's possible that as he approached his twenties he might have decided to become more involved in government. He clearly wasn't someone who liked being told what to do and as he seems to have had a ruthless streak I don't think he would have had a problem packing the Dolgorukys off to Siberia. He might also have sent his wife to a convent but if she'd born him sons he might have been reluctant to do so and the marriage could have continued provided she remained in the background. As he was Maria Theresa's first cousin he might have tried to marry his son to one of her numerous daughters, or vice versa.

If his sister Natalia survived then I think it's unlikely he would have become engaged to Catherine Dolgoruky as Natalia would probably have seen that the family were just using him and cautioned him against them. As she does appear to have been the one person he truly loved - understandable when you think of the way they grew up - he would probably have listened to her. As someone who appears to have been intelligent and a strong character he had the potential to be an impressive ruler if he ever put the pleasures of hunting and feasting to one side.
 
If his sister Natalia survived then I think it's unlikely he would have become engaged to Catherine Dolgoruky as Natalia would probably have seen that the family were just using him and cautioned him against them. As she does appear to have been the one person he truly loved - understandable when you think of the way they grew up - he would probably have listened to her. As someone who appears to have been intelligent and a strong character he had the potential to be an impressive ruler if he ever put the pleasures of hunting and feasting to one side.

I think that's probably the best POD for OTL Peter II. Apparently, Peter the Great wasn't interested in his upbringing because he reminded him of his son, Alexei.

EDIT: Then again, Peter might gradually grow to resent Natalia's influence, the way he did with Alexander Menshikov, or like Nero did with his mother, Agrippina.

Could it also see a double marriage with Natalia's planned marriage to Alexander Menshikov's son, Alexander, and Peter's later proposed marriage to Maria Menshikova?
 
I don't think Peter would have grown to resent Natalia's influence, partly because - unlike Menshikov or indeed Agrippina! - I don't think she was a particularly forceful or strident personality. Had she tried to influence him I think she would have done it gently and because he loved her he would have listened to and least considered her advice if not necessarily always followed it.

I don't think the double marriage with Menshikov's son and daughter was ever a realistic option. Both Peter and Natalia hated Menshikov - I think because they viewed him as the man responsible for the death of their father. In fact, when Peter the Great died, I think one of the reasons Menshikov pushed for his wife Catherine to succeed him was because he was wary of having Alexis's son on the throne even though he was the obvious choice of successor. When Catherine herself died I think Menshikov's attitude had changed and because Peter was kept in the background, was still young and perhaps appeared malleable, he viewed him as controllable - Oops! Also he was probably dazzled by the prospect of not only being Regent but also father in law to the Tsar and grandfather of a future Tsar.
 
I get the idea that due to their closeness, Pyotr will marry Natalia off to a younger son who can domicile in Russia OR allow her to remain unwed and simply turn a blind eye to her affairs as long as they stay private.

Maybe the Three Eagles' Alliance can be strengthened by a foreign match -Friedrich II had almost as many sisters as Maria Theresia did daughters. Maybe one of them - or even OTL's Anna Leopoldovna - ends up as the Russian consort.
 
I agree - I don't think Peter would have wanted his sister Natalia to make a foreign marriage. As she appears to have been the one person he truly loved he wouldn't have wanted to lose her. A younger son from one of the German royal families might well have been a suitable option as the man in question would be far more likely to relocate to Russia.

As for Peter's marriage prospects, I guess a lot would depend on whether he followed through on his plan to marry Catherine Dolgorukova. If he did then whether he remarried would depend on various factors such as whether he got sick of the Dolgoruky family or if Catherine herself was unable to produce a child. If he decided not to marry her - and recovering from such a serious illness as smallpox could well have prompted some sort of spiritual epiphany - then I suppose Anna Leopoldovna would have been a possibility. They were close in age and must have known each other reasonably well. If a foreign marriage alliance was desired, then I'm not sure who would be a suitable candidate. A Prussian princess would be suitable in terms of age but as Russia was still seen as a backward state the Prussians might not have thought it a worthwhile match. Of course most of the minor German royal houses would have jumped at the chance!
 
I agree - I don't think Peter would have wanted his sister Natalia to make a foreign marriage. As she appears to have been the one person he truly loved he wouldn't have wanted to lose her. A younger son from one of the German royal families might well have been a suitable option as the man in question would be far more likely to relocate to Russia.

As for Peter's marriage prospects, I guess a lot would depend on whether he followed through on his plan to marry Catherine Dolgorukova. If he did then whether he remarried would depend on various factors such as whether he got sick of the Dolgoruky family or if Catherine herself was unable to produce a child. If he decided not to marry her - and recovering from such a serious illness as smallpox could well have prompted some sort of spiritual epiphany - then I suppose Anna Leopoldovna would have been a possibility. They were close in age and must have known each other reasonably well. If a foreign marriage alliance was desired, then I'm not sure who would be a suitable candidate. A Prussian princess would be suitable in terms of age but as Russia was still seen as a backward state the Prussians might not have thought it a worthwhile match. Of course most of the minor German royal houses would have jumped at the chance!

A cool dream - and sadly just that - is Peter marrying Anna Leopoldovna and Natalia marrying Anton Ulrich of Brunswick. He's a second son (albeit well-connected), so he won't be missed too much in Germany. Anna, on the other hand, is well-born enough (her mother being Ivan V's daughter, her father the duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin) but not high-ranked enough that anyone else can really raise objections to it.
 
From what I can understand of Pyotr was that he had inherited his grandfather's taste for alcohol and women, but no sort of affinity for work. Peter the Great might've been a fratboy king, but he was driven, ambitious and understood the rudiments of governing. Pyotr was the fratboy, possibly minus the desireable skills/brains. But I could be wrong in thinking that his reign might be more of a petticoat regime than the three empresses who came after him combined.

Had Peter the Great actually shown any drive, ambition, or understanding of the rudiments of government by 1687? Because Peter II was only 15 when he died. Peter the Great only took over the actual government when he was 22, so I'm not sure how we can make any judgments about his grandson's character.
 
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