WI Perceval held Malaya?

However the sort of lunatics who join these sort of operations probably wouldnt worry about that bit of the plan...:D

I really can't shake the idea that that would make a great Monty Python sketch, with Major Cleese explaining to Private Idle why there is no room in the boat if anything goes wrong:D
 

Blair152

Banned
Too junior at this juncture, unfortunately, which is why I suggested Gertie Tuker. He was the best available IA officer of appropriate rank, already a Major General and quite capable of the step up to LtGen.

Another interesting option would have been reactivating Bernard Freyberg's British Commission, but I think the Kiwis might have screamed blue bloody murder over that one. :D
There's precedence for this though. Commodore Preble was chosen to replace Richard V. Morris during the First Barbary War. This, would have caused those senior to Preble to disobey his orders, so the Department of
the Navy withdrew all captains senior to Preble, from the Med. You may be asking "Where is he going with this?" I'll tell you, Larrikin. Major General Gertie Tuker could be promoted to Lieutenant General, even if he is too junior for the position, provided that all the generals senior to him are withdrawn from theater. Am I making making myself clear, or clear as mud? :D
 
There's precedence for this though. Commodore Preble was chosen to replace Richard V. Morris during the First Barbary War. This, would have caused those senior to Preble to disobey his orders, so the Department of
the Navy withdrew all captains senior to Preble, from the Med. You may be asking "Where is he going with this?" I'll tell you, Larrikin. Major General Gertie Tuker could be promoted to Lieutenant General, even if he is too junior for the position, provided that all the generals senior to him are withdrawn from theater. Am I making making myself clear, or clear as mud? :D

Why would the British appoint someone on the basis of their ability to do the job? That's not how the UK works. Bear in mind this is the country that sacked the man who won the Battle of Britain because his superiors thought he won it the wrong way (this is completely true, btw, Air Vice Marshal Keith Park)

Anyone who's going to post anything to do with Britain needs to google 'Buggins Turn'. Without understanding what that means, you can't really understand the British mentality.
 
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Bearcat

Banned
Why would the British appoint someone on the basis of their ability to do the job? That's not how the UK works. Bear in mind this is the country that sacked the man who won the Battle of Britain because his superiors thought he won it the wrong way (this is completely true, btw, Air Vice Marshal Keith Park)

Anyone who's going to post anything to do with Britain needs to google 'Buggins Turn'. Without understanding what that means, you can't really understand the British mentality.

IIRC Monty was frowned upon by many of his contemporaries, because instead of hanging out at the club, he actually was interested in the professional craft of generalship.

(Now some of my fellow Americans frowned upon him for other things. But the reality is complicated, and its fodder for another thread.)
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
The Destroyer men is a FICTIONAL series.

So the decision of U.S. Rear Admiral Robley D. Evans in 1904 ensured that the Dutch and British would only use small ships in the region? Must have been qute the compelling argument. Too bad nobody, including the USN paid the slightest bit of attention.

The ABDA fleet included (besides the doomed PoW & Repulse) two heavy cruisers (USS Houston & HMS Exeter) and three light cruisers. Houston was a 9,500 ton Treaty Cruiser with 3 x 3 8" guns and Exeter (10,000 tons) was one of the ships that defeated the Graf Spee. Just to clue you in, a 9,500 ton 8" gun heavy cruiser is NOT a small ship. For that matter 7,000-8,000 ton 6" light cruisers aren't exactly row boats.

Does your cluelessness know no bounds?

Adm. Philips' loss of Force Z was devastating to say the least. True, ABDA
could have rallied around it. However, you'd need air cover. If you've read the Lonely Ships by Edwin P. Hoyt, or The Destroyermen series by Taylor
Anderson, you'll know that the Asiatic Fleet didn't have a single battleship,
or an aircraft carrier, to depend on. That was the result of decision made back in 1904. In 1904, Robley D. Evans, decided to use smaller ships in the
Asiatic Fleet. The backbone of the Asiatic Fleet in 1941-42, was the four-piper, also called the four-stacker, and flushed deck destroyer. This included the Clemson class destroyers. Go to http://en.wikipedia.org/United States Asiatic Fleet.
 
IIRC Monty was frowned upon by many of his contemporaries, because instead of hanging out at the club, he actually was interested in the professional craft of generalship.

(Now some of my fellow Americans frowned upon him for other things. But the reality is complicated, and its fodder for another thread.)

You could create a whole forum on Monty! (Personally, I'm more of a Slim fan)
 

Larrikin

Banned
There's precedence for this though. Commodore Preble was chosen to replace Richard V. Morris during the First Barbary War. This, would have caused those senior to Preble to disobey his orders, so the Department of
the Navy withdrew all captains senior to Preble, from the Med. You may be asking "Where is he going with this?" I'll tell you, Larrikin. Major General Gertie Tuker could be promoted to Lieutenant General, even if he is too junior for the position, provided that all the generals senior to him are withdrawn from theater. Am I making making myself clear, or clear as mud? :D

I was referring to Bill Slim as being too junior, as in 1941 he was a junior Brigadier, Gertie Tuker was a Major General as you said, and there wouldn't have been any problem promoting him to Lieutenant General to take up the command in Malaya. As for not taking orders from someone junior to you on the list, it may have worked like that for the RN during the 1900s, not going to happen in the army during WWII, or WWI for that matter.

For example, Haig was junior to Plumer and Allenby, but was promoted to first Army Commander and then BEF over them.

And during WWII Freyberg was senior on the British MajGen list to every officer who ever commanded over him, including Alexander and Alanbrooke, let alone any of the Americans.
 
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The ABDA fleet included (besides the doomed PoW & Repulse) two heavy cruisers (USS Houston & HMS Exeter) and three light cruisers. Houston was a 9,500 ton Treaty Cruiser with 3 x 3 8" guns and Exeter (10,000 tons) was one of the ships that defeated the Graf Spee. Just to clue you in, a 9,500 ton 8" gun heavy cruiser is NOT a small ship. For that matter 7,000-8,000 ton 6" light cruisers aren't exactly row boats.

The Exeter and HMAS Hobart (6" cruiser) were on their way to Malayan waters when the war started, I think they were only 3 days away when Force Z went down.
 
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