WI Pentarchy Restored

I'll admit I got this idea from Europe Universalis, but it is a real thing. In the game an Orthodox nation could restore the Pentarchy if they conquered Jerusalem, Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria and Antioch. The effects in the game were fairly minor, but what if this happened in real life? I'm not sure how though. Maybe a hyper-competent Russian leader pulls a Napoleon? A resurgent Byzantine Empire? It would need some pretty radical PoDs to pull it off but if it did happen how would it effect Christianity? Would the Catholic church collapse totally if Rome was conquered?
 

Asami

Banned
I'll admit I got this idea from Europe Universalis, but it is a real thing. In the game an Orthodox nation could restore the Pentarchy if they conquered Jerusalem, Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria and Antioch. The effects in the game were fairly minor, but what if this happened in real life? I'm not sure how though. Maybe a hyper-competent Russian leader pulls a Napoleon? A resurgent Byzantine Empire? It would need some pretty radical PoDs to pull it off but if it did happen how would it effect Christianity? Would the Catholic church collapse totally if Rome was conquered?

The Catholic Church would likely not completely collapse. Many Catholic rulers would likely ignore the "restoration of the Pentarchy" and still swear fealty to some Pope claimant or the Pope-in-exile.
 
The Catholic Church would likely not completely collapse. Many Catholic rulers would likely ignore the "restoration of the Pentarchy" and still swear fealty to some Pope claimant or the Pope-in-exile.
That's pretty much what I imagined. On the other hand if the Pope and some of the Cardinals are captured or killed it could create a lot of disagreements on who the Pope-in-exile should be. I could see the Catholic states also arguing over where the exiled Vatican should base itself.
 
its pretty simple actually, though difficult to pull off. Have the exarch of ravenna survive and the lombards reppeled from at least central and southern Italy. That coupled with a succesful repulsion of Krum and his Bulgars in the balkans, would ensure that the pope of rome would be unable to make any overt gestures to the franks and move from the ere orbit. OTL the big cause of Romes split was because the byzantines had suffered a crushing defeat against barbarians, the rightful emperor though incapable was murdered, and the successful victories of the franks over the lombards. As long as Rome continues to see the ERE in a strong position at least in the balkans and Italy, the less chance the popes will have of restoring their papal primacy and the patriarchate at least in name still survives even though Antioch, Jerusalum and Alexandria fell to the arabs.
 
The thing is, if the Byzantines are diplomatically savvy enough, they could sell this to Western rulers as a good thing. If they can enforce the Pentarchy again, then they can probably get the Pope to establish *national patriarchates in the West as well.

The main issues I see here are theological (I'm thinking filioque here), but I'm sure that if a Council was called then it's possible those could be resolved as well. Otherwise yeah what's said above seems the most likely scenario.
 
The thing is, if the Byzantines are diplomatically savvy enough, they could sell this to Western rulers as a good thing. If they can enforce the Pentarchy again, then they can probably get the Pope to establish *national patriarchates in the West as well.

The main issues I see here are theological (I'm thinking filioque here), but I'm sure that if a Council was called then it's possible those could be resolved as well. Otherwise yeah what's said above seems the most likely scenario.
nah by the second council of nicea the actual council the east church and the west church under Pope Hadrian were in agreement for the most part. Its just later on once Rome began courting the franks and their version was mistranslated in german and in constantinople under Leo the iconoclasts gained power that the agreement beetween the two churches was messed up. By the time the iconclast movement died Rome had already broken away and the rift was to get deeper between the two groups leading to the pope and patriarch eventual excommunication of each other.

Thus it was politics that divided the church which accepted the nicean creed into two, orthdox and catholic, not theological or religious differences at the time.
 
nah by the second council of nicea the actual council the east church and the west church under Pope Hadrian were in agreement for the most part. Its just later on once Rome began courting the franks and their version was mistranslated in german and in constantinople under Leo the iconoclasts gained power that the agreement beetween the two churches was messed up. By the time the iconclast movement died Rome had already broken away and the rift was to get deeper between the two groups leading to the pope and patriarch eventual excommunication of each other.

Thus it was politics that divided the church which accepted the nicean creed into two, orthdox and catholic, not theological or religious differences at the time.

It really all depends on the time period, but I think this view seriously downplays the theological clashes that were common between Rome and Constantinople following Chalcedon. If we're talking before the Frankish intervention then it should be easier, but even then theological issues can and will continue to be a problem, and it's possible that a Frankish "filioquist" Church develops as a way for the Franks to exert more control over their clergy.
 
Your best chance for a "restoration" of the the Pentarchy that sees most if not all of Western Christendom fall back into Orthodoxy would be to have Constantine IV not leave before the Battle of Ongal so that the Roman army the army doesn't think that the emperor has fled and doesn't panic and as a resalt win the battle keeping the Bulgarians out of the Balkans and pushing them into the Pannonian Plain. This would butterfly the dysentery that killed him and in 685 and instead he could goes on to rule the empire for another another decade or two. He had managed to turn back the Arabs OTL and had proven competent against them, so without the Twenty Years of Anarchy that debilitated the empire and the resulting Iconoclast which fractured relations between the East and West you get a resurgent empire that is in a position to take advantage of political instability in the Caliphate like the Second Fitna and restore the Pentarchy. This will be early enough that most "Catholic" rulers won't have a separate identity as Catholics and will simply be Orthodox.
 
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