WI Pearl Harbor more coodinated

robdab2

Banned
Bill Cameron, you replied,

There is another slight possibility however. The IJN possessed a number of seaplane tenders before the war. Among others, the Nisshin was completed in 1937 and carried 20 seaplanes. The Chitose-class were completed pre-war also. While they carried 30 aircraft after their wartime conversion to aircraft carriers, I don't know how many seaplanes they carried before that conversion.

An attack led by a few seaplane tenders and covered by a few cruisers might be plausible. Such a force would still require an oiler, or oilers, would greatly risk detection well before reaching a launch point, and would still divert assets from Japan's other, far more important, planned operations.

I see that you DID read my, "Even better would be using an IJN seaplane carrier instead so as not to weaken the KB's Pearl Harbor strike force." from my posting #25 earlier in this thread.

P.S. One of my books states that the Chitose-class carried 24 seaplanes prior to conversion. I can't vouch for the accuracy of that however.

Quite true but that can be changed fairly easily if so desired.
 

robdab2

Banned
Bill Cameron, you slagged,

Logistics are always ignored in threads of this type and in threads like Robdab's The Day The Panama Canal Was Bombed. That's sad because logistics are actually an important part of any What If? and the most important part of any military What If?.

When one remembers to consider what the article you linked reminds us of, the great lengths Yamamoto had to go to get just the Pearl Harbor operation approved, it becomes clear that a carrier led operation against the Panama Canal is a non-starter without wholesale changes to Japan's high command, to Japan's pre-war planning, to the assets available, and even to Japan itself.

This seems an unfairly pompus criticism of a scenario that I have yet to even post, don't ya think ? You haven't even read it yet and you are already dissing what you IMAGINE is not included ?

I'm not using any IJN carriers and I have already mentioned here a taken-over civilian tanker as being one of the 5 Japanese vessels required for my ATL Panama attack. 20% of my entire force is logistical support.

I don't believe that I'll need more but a spare fast tanker would be a nice insurance policy in case of mechanical breakdown. Lets call it 6 Japanese ships then, shall we. Not too much to ask as there were 45 - 8 (for the KB) = 37 such idled in the Inland Sea at the time. So 33% of my proposed force is logistical support, rather than 20%.
 
I see that you DID read my, "Even better would be using an IJN seaplane carrier instead so as not to weaken the KB's Pearl Harbor strike force." from my posting #25 earlier in this thread.



Robdab2,

I'm sorry, but I didn't.

I originally responded to Mike Stearns' post and then to your's after that. I didn't review the thread with an eye towards your earlier suggestions as I should have.

Dr. Willmott of the Citadel writes in The Pacific War Companion that the IJN used every ship at it's disposal, with the exception of a single destroyer, during the operations that kicked off the war with the Western Allies. You're going to have take assets from some pre-existing operation for your Canal attack and, given the distances involved, those assets will be engaged for a lengthy period of time.

Good luck with you TL. I feel sure it will be interesting and spark interesting discussions.


Bill

Bill
 

robdab2

Banned
Bill Cameron wrote,

Dr. Willmott of the Citadel writes in The Pacific War Companion that the IJN used every ship at it's disposal, with the exception of a single destroyer, during the operations that kicked off the war with the Western Allies. You're going to have take assets from some pre-existing operation for your Canal attack and, given the distances involved, those assets will be engaged for a lengthy period of time.

I was guided by the TROMS (Tabular Record of Movements) presented at http://combinedfleet.com a well known and respected internet source on the IJN's WW2 warships. Although not 100% complete for many of the smaller warships, all of the readers of my ATL Panama attack thread should thus be able to quickly check on the locations/activities of most of Japan's War Fleet on Dec.7'41, no matter the size or completeness of their at home libraries.

Good luck with you TL. I feel sure it will be interesting and spark interesting discussions.

Many thanks. 'Tis my overall objective.
 
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