WI: Paulus sent to El Alamein and Rommel to Stalingrad

In August 15th, 1942 Hitler decides to change things up and puts Paulus in command at El Alamein and Rommel in charge of the soon to arrive Stalingrad campaign. How would Rommel deal with an urban combat fight which is one of the few types of battles he never really dealt with in a significant way?

It would be interesting to see how his aversion to incurring civilian casualties comes up against a war in a city full of people making limiting civilian death difficult. It's also a very different kind of opponent then he is used to. OTL Rommel if he got to Alexandra wanted to win over the population. Would he try something similar here?

How would Paulus do in desert combat against a very different kind of opponent in a very different environment then Stalingrad? What might he do differently then occurred OTL?
 
I think a lot of Paulus's performance in the desert would hinge upon how well he hits it off with his opposite Italian numbers. While Rommel and the Italians (who made up the numerical bulk of troops in North Africa) despised one another on a personal level, the Italians came to respect him on a professional level after witnessing his victories in the field.
 
How would Paulus do in desert combat against a very different kind of opponent in a very different environment then Stalingrad? What might he do differently then occurred OTL?

Retire from a logistically impossible position - IIRC he was sent to North Africa in 1941 to report on the logistics situation.
 
It would be interesting to see how his aversion to incurring civilian casualties comes up against a war in a city full of people making limiting civilian death difficult. It's also a very different kind of opponent then he is used to. OTL Rommel if he got to Alexandra wanted to win over the population. Would he try something similar here?

Indeed, Rommel is going to get the shock of his life when he shows up on the Eastern Front.

Given the nature of urban combat in Stalingrad, his style of fighting from the front is going to increase his chances of getting killed. If a sniper doesn't get him, a Popov might light up any vehicle he is in with a Molotov. Also, he wouldn't have the strategic sense to know that the Romanian divisions he has guarding his flanks while he moves in for the kill would give way when Operation Uranus finally goes up.

As for the civilians, he might try to convince General Ricthofen of Luftflotte 4 to not reduce Stalingrad to rubble, but that would be as far as he goes. Or at least as far as he can go anyhow. He would eventually be forced to discard or suppress his aversion to civilian casualties during the fighting.

How would Paulus do in desert combat against a very different kind of opponent in a very different environment then Stalingrad? What might he do differently then occurred OTL?

He would actually stand back and look at the big picture. While leading from the front did wonders for troop morale and provided Goebbels with a poster boy, it tired Rommel out and caused him to be absent when the British struck at El Alamein. Paulus' slow and methodical style, on the other hand, would allow him to secure his advance batter. He wouldn't run wild in the desert like what Rommel did.

Anyway, by the time Paulus get to Africa, the damage had already been done. The odds were already beginning to stack up against Rommel when Hitler (I suppose, in one of his random moments of insanity) orders this switch.
 
He would actually stand back and look at the big picture. While leading from the front did wonders for troop morale and provided Goebbels with a poster boy, it tired Rommel out and caused him to be absent when the British struck at El Alamein. Paulus' slow and methodical style, on the other hand, would allow him to secure his advance batter. He wouldn't run wild in the desert like what Rommel did.

It was certainly really mentally and physically deleterious to Rommel's health to always be running around the front.

s-ERWIN-ROMMEL-EL-ALAMEIN-large640.jpg


Though Rommel's style which made him popular with Anglo-American forces and by extension their populations of always being at the front and interacting with the troops on both sides could prove even worse in Stalingrad.

In the summer of 1941, two groups of German and British soldiers met deep in the Libyan desert. Instead of shooting at each other, the enemies chatted and exchanged cigarettes before going their separate ways. What made the encounter all the more remarkable was that Erwin Rommel, the German commander in North Africa, was among them.

Mr Schneider, now 86, said: "The common soldiers did not act out of hate. When we met the English soldiers in the desert that time, we were far, far from anywhere. There was no reason to shoot. We swapped cigarettes and I talked with the English officers.

The extent to which the ferocity of a war fought by young men has been replaced by comradeship among former enemies was underlined this weekend when Mr Schneider met five former Desert Rats, including an ambulance driver who accidentally drove into a German tank position while it was being inspected by Rommel and was promptly sent back to his lines by the field marshal with Mr Schneider at his side. "We are now friends, very good friends," he said. "I was once a German soldier and they were English soldiers but now we find it difficult to understand why we had to fight against each other. Rommel was always first a soldier. We did not forget that we were fighting fellow human beings."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/rudolf-schneider-i-was-rommels-driver-1706924.html

I somehow don't think it would work out the same way if Rommel at Stalingrad sees a Red Army unit and says those are some enemy soldiers over there that aren't doing anything lets talk to them.

Indeed, Rommel is going to get the shock of his life when he shows up on the Eastern Front

It would certainly cause a major clash with his concepts on how war should be waged assuming he doesn't get killed quickly.
 
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Rommel lead the 7th panzer in the storm of Cherbourg, so it's not like fighting in built up areas was completely alien to him

although given his thought processes, its more likely he would eschew the city battle in favor of making the decisive effort north of the city to try and cross the volga and cut the city off anyway
 
although given his thought processes, its more likely he would eschew the city battle in favor of making the decisive effort north of the city to try and cross the volga and cut the city off anyway

You are possibly right about that that would make sense given his thought processes at the time.

Though its not the only thing he might consider doing.
 
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And what happens when Rommel is forced to comply with several superior levels who are giving him direct orders? In Africa he was for all practical purposes chief and did as he wished and could easily find his way around Hitler's orders. In Stalingrad he would have army Group HQ and Hitler, who took great and detailed interest in fighting there, watching him closely. So him saying "Eh, screw these orders, let's do it my way" wouldn't fly.
 
And what happens when Rommel is forced to comply with several superior levels who are giving him direct orders? In Africa he was for all practical purposes chief and did as he wished and could easily find his way around Hitler's orders. In Stalingrad he would have army Group HQ and Hitler, who took great and detailed interest in fighting there, watching him closely. So him saying "Eh, screw these orders, let's do it my way" wouldn't fly.

Rommel by that point was Field Marshal, and he outranks Zeitzler and Halder... in effect he would only answer to Hitler himself. At least to that point Hitler trusted Rommel's judgement (as much as he trusted anyone's)

Rommel by that point could only be sent to Russia as AG B commander.
 
Rommel by that point was Field Marshal, and he outranks Zeitzler and Halder... in effect he would only answer to Hitler himself. At least to that point Hitler trusted Rommel's judgement (as much as he trusted anyone's)

Rommel by that point could only be sent to Russia as AG B commander.

Ooops, missed the date when switch takes place. :eek:

But yes, he wouldn't be 6th Army commander but AG commander.
 
Rommel by that point was Field Marshal, and he outranks Zeitzler and Halder... in effect he would only answer to Hitler himself. At least to that point Hitler trusted Rommel's judgement (as much as he trusted anyone's)

Rommel by that point could only be sent to Russia as AG B commander.

So.... War is shortened by a year due to Rommel strategic incompetence ?
 
Rommel lead the 7th panzer in the storm of Cherbourg, so it's not like fighting in built up areas was completely alien to him

although given his thought processes, its more likely he would eschew the city battle in favor of making the decisive effort north of the city to try and cross the volga and cut the city off anyway

I doubt he'd be foolish enough to attempt such an enterprise. 16th panzer and 3rd motorized IOTL were stretched to their limit trying to hold the corridor they had carved to the Volga and repel constant Soviet counterattacks. Attempting an assault crossing of the Volga off the march would end in disaster. The Soviets deployed most of their reserves in the Kotluban-Orlovka-Rynok area, right in the path of any prospective German advance north of the Volga.
 
I doubt he'd be foolish enough to attempt such an enterprise. 16th panzer and 3rd motorized IOTL were stretched to their limit trying to hold the corridor they had carved to the Volga and repel constant Soviet counterattacks. Attempting an assault crossing of the Volga off the march would end in disaster. The Soviets deployed most of their reserves in the Kotluban-Orlovka-Rynok area, right in the path of any prospective German advance north of the Volga.

The soviets were on the fence about defending the city... If Rommel crosses even weakly they may retreat to draw the Germans further away from their supply centers before winter
 
The soviets were on the fence about defending the city... If Rommel crosses even weakly they may retreat to draw the Germans further away from their supply centers before winter

The Soviets were committed to defend/relieve the city from the start; in total 6 newly formed/refitted armies were committed in late August and early September. Counterattacks against 6th army were ferocious and constant. Nothing in that indicates that a withdrawal was likely. Just the opposite, when the Germans reached the Volga STAVKA went on the offensive and launched a series of counterattacks at Kotluban, Seramaforovich, and Kletskaia, along with calling up new formations to defend the city.

Soviet and German records from July, August, and September shows a clear pattern of the Red Army fighting forward and sutbbornly, with multiple counteroffensives launched throught the summer. Withdrawals were forbidden, only allowed when forced. STAVKA would never willingly surrender the city. By late July Stalingrad was 6th/4thpzr armies obvious objective; surrendering the city in expectation of a German pursuit wouldn't happen, as the STAVKA knew the city was the final objective.
 
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