WI: Pauline Bonaparte Has Issue With Her Second Husband?

So I open a magazine today, and there's a section on the various overlooked royals now that Prince Harry is off the market. (when I say overlooked royals I'm talking about some dregs out of the British royal family (one of Princess Margaret's grandsons/great-grandsons and another who's a third cousin once removed or something of the Queen), one or two actual royals (Archduke Amadeus of Austria-Este (wrongly called 'Laurent' and entitled 'of Belgium') and Alexandra of Luxembourg), some quasi-royals (Princess Stephanie of Monaco's two bastard daughters). And some who are royal by marriage rather than blood (Princess Claire of Luxembourg).

But strangely enough, they include Prince Lorenzo Borghese. Now, while the whole article is a load of trash not worth the paper it's written on - sorry if that sounds harsh, but there are numerous mistakes they made (which I'll admit I could be wrong - I don't know everything) that a simple wikipedia search could've cleared up. What caught my eye was the printing that described him as "descended from Pauline Bonaparte, sister of Emperor Napoleon".

Now, I've already sent a letter to the editor asking after the source for this claim. But it got me thinking: Pauline and Camillo Borghese lived apart after the death of her son, Dermide (for which she blamed the Borgheses), but that was August 1804, they married in August/November 1803 - so not a lot of time for her to get knocked up, but I figure a wedding-night baby isn't impossible (assuming of course that Dermide's birth didn't "damage" her). Would this change anything? Could this "save" the Bonaparte-Borghese marriage or is that a lost cause?
 
So I open a magazine today, and there's a section on the various overlooked royals now that Prince Harry is off the market. (when I say overlooked royals I'm talking about some dregs out of the British royal family (one of Princess Margaret's grandsons/great-grandsons and another who's a third cousin once removed or something of the Queen), one or two actual royals (Archduke Amadeus of Austria-Este (wrongly called 'Laurent' and entitled 'of Belgium') and Alexandra of Luxembourg), some quasi-royals (Princess Stephanie of Monaco's two bastard daughters). And some who are royal by marriage rather than blood (Princess Claire of Luxembourg).

But strangely enough, they include Prince Lorenzo Borghese. Now, while the whole article is a load of trash not worth the paper it's written on - sorry if that sounds harsh, but there are numerous mistakes they made (which I'll admit I could be wrong - I don't know everything) that a simple wikipedia search could've cleared up. What caught my eye was the printing that described him as "descended from Pauline Bonaparte, sister of Emperor Napoleon".

Now, I've already sent a letter to the editor asking after the source for this claim. But it got me thinking: Pauline and Camillo Borghese lived apart after the death of her son, Dermide (for which she blamed the Borgheses), but that was August 1804, they married in August/November 1803 - so not a lot of time for her to get knocked up, but I figure a wedding-night baby isn't impossible (assuming of course that Dermide's birth didn't "damage" her). Would this change anything? Could this "save" the Bonaparte-Borghese marriage or is that a lost cause?

As I understand it, the rift between Camillo and Pauline was due to mutual desinterest. I am not sure anything could save it. Fun butterfly : Camillo Borghese was godfather of his namesake Camillo Benso di Cavour. If Borghese stayed in Tuscany rather than in Piemont, he would not be asked by the Cavour. Not sure of the influence on Cavour himself, though. Only fun to see the mastermind of italian unity called Napoleone...
 
As I understand it, the rift between Camillo and Pauline was due to mutual desinterest. I am not sure anything could save it. Fun butterfly : Camillo Borghese was godfather of his namesake Camillo Benso di Cavour. If Borghese stayed in Tuscany rather than in Piemont, he would not be asked by the Cavour. Not sure of the influence on Cavour himself, though. Only fun to see the mastermind of italian unity called Napoleone...

That would be fun to see happening. Although Napoleone Benso di Cavour could just as easily end up as a clergyman as a soldier as a politician (after all, he's born in 1810, and his parents married in 1805), so he might not even have the same mom and dad...

But I've been thinking some more - is there a way to get Prince Lorenzo Borghese descended from one of Napoléon's siblings? I figure Lucien or Caroline are the most likely candidates? Of course, then he wouldn't be the same Prince Lorenzo, but it would at least make the text of his profile partially true (him descending from one of Napoléon's sibling).
 
Revisiting the topic of Pauline's second marriage. IIRC Napoléon attempted to enforce royal mourning on her after Leclerc died only to have Madame Mère subvert him and allow Pauline to wed before her mourning was up.

Could Napoléon attempt to arrange an international marriage for her as he did for Jérôme, and Eugène and Stéphanie de Beauharnais, as well as Josèphine's cousin he married to a princess of Leyen.

Most likely Germany is out, but Pauline might like the idea of being a queen more than mere princess. True, she doesn't have Caroline's ambitious nature, but like most of the Bonapartes, she abhorred Josèphine. (In one bio of Napoléon I read (can't recall the author) its said that she married Prince Borghese so that she'd outrank Josèphine who was then still Citoyenne AFAIK.

An interesting match would be to Fernando VII of Spain. Of course, the Bonapartes aren't royal yet, but I was thinking that Napoléon could get the pope to annul Pauline's marriage to Borghese when Pius comes to crown him. Pauline would gladly agree and Camillo was widely regarded as an idiot, but I think he could be bought off with a governorship or a pension. Napoléon considered one of Lucien's daughters as a replacement wife for Fernando VII OTL (or rather, Fernando proposed to her to rebel against Godoy), but before 1810 Napoléon had no of-age female relatives to offer. So, Nappy gets an annulment for Pauline and Camillo (it was contracted against his consent but I'm sure he a canonical reason could be found), and marries Pauline to Fernando. Nando gets a son or two out of the deal and Napoléon is spared the Spanish ulcer (probably) since Spain doesn't get a Bonaparte king but rather a Borbon king whose mom is Napoléon's sister.
 
So I open a magazine today, and there's a section on the various overlooked royals now that Prince Harry is off the market. (when I say overlooked royals I'm talking about some dregs out of the British royal family (one of Princess Margaret's grandsons/great-grandsons and another who's a third cousin once removed or something of the Queen), one or two actual royals (Archduke Amadeus of Austria-Este (wrongly called 'Laurent' and entitled 'of Belgium') and Alexandra of Luxembourg), some quasi-royals (Princess Stephanie of Monaco's two bastard daughters). And some who are royal by marriage rather than blood (Princess Claire of Luxembourg).

But strangely enough, they include Prince Lorenzo Borghese. Now, while the whole article is a load of trash not worth the paper it's written on - sorry if that sounds harsh, but there are numerous mistakes they made (which I'll admit I could be wrong - I don't know everything) that a simple wikipedia search could've cleared up. What caught my eye was the printing that described him as "descended from Pauline Bonaparte, sister of Emperor Napoleon".

Now, I've already sent a letter to the editor asking after the source for this claim. But it got me thinking: Pauline and Camillo Borghese lived apart after the death of her son, Dermide (for which she blamed the Borgheses), but that was August 1804, they married in August/November 1803 - so not a lot of time for her to get knocked up, but I figure a wedding-night baby isn't impossible (assuming of course that Dermide's birth didn't "damage" her). Would this change anything? Could this "save" the Bonaparte-Borghese marriage or is that a lost cause?
Well Archduke Amadeus of Austria-Este is also a prince of Belgium (from his mother's side) and has the full right to the title and Stephanie's children with Ducret are legitimate (unlike her youngest daughter).
That wrong kind of claim about Pauline as ancestress of the Borghese's family is something who happen when people do not verify the facts or are trying to sell someconnections as stronger than they really were (and I strongly suspect here is the second thing because Pauline Bonaparte is well know and is know also as Princess Borghese)

Paolina and Camillo were mostly uninterested in each other and likely also in having children together as sometimes happen in arranged matches so I think they had almost zero chances from the start. Maybe in a slightly different circumstances that marriage never happen and she will be free for a better match a couple of years later...
 
Paolina and Camillo were mostly uninterested in each other and likely also in having children together as sometimes happen in arranged matches so I think they had almost zero chances from the start. Maybe in a slightly different circumstances that marriage never happen and she will be free for a better match a couple of years later...

I thought the marriage between Pauline and Camillo was more of a "love match", that Napoléon was against because he had other plans? What do you think of the idea of Napoléon having the match broken so he could wed his sister elsewhere? It seems rather Borgia-esque, but considering he did the same with Jérôme, and cut Lucien off when he contracted an unsuitable marriage to the widow de Jouberthon, I don't think it's entirely out of character.

Whoops, my bad on Stephanie's kids. I was under the impression that both daughters are illegitimate since both were born outside of holy wedlock. And I'm pretty sure that that TV show where the "royal" princes go to America to work, live and look for love, Prince Lorenzo was also in (wasn't he also on the Bachelor or something?), likewise listed him as being descended from Pauline. Then again, that TV show has a Medici prince that they can't exactly ascertain what his connection is to the Medici is, since his parents don't show up in any genealogy of the family (sounds a bit like that bogus Stuart pretender who can't find a date when his supposed grandparents were married if you ask me).
Though it is not clear which extant branch of the Medici family that Lorenzo is a descendant of
 
I thought the marriage between Pauline and Camillo was more of a "love match", that Napoléon was against because he had other plans? What do you think of the idea of Napoléon having the match broken so he could wed his sister elsewhere? It seems rather Borgia-esque, but considering he did the same with Jérôme, and cut Lucien off when he contracted an unsuitable marriage to the widow de Jouberthon, I don't think it's entirely out of character.

Whoops, my bad on Stephanie's kids. I was under the impression that both daughters are illegitimate since both were born outside of holy wedlock. And I'm pretty sure that that TV show where the "royal" princes go to America to work, live and look for love, Prince Lorenzo was also in (wasn't he also on the Bachelor or something?), likewise listed him as being descended from Pauline. Then again, that TV show has a Medici prince that they can't exactly ascertain what his connection is to the Medici is, since his parents don't show up in any genealogy of the family (sounds a bit like that bogus Stuart pretender who can't find a date when his supposed grandparents were married if you ask me).
Stephanie's children with Ducret were both born before their parents' wedding but were fully legitimized (so like they were born after and not before the wedding) when the wedding happened because that are the rules of the house of Monaco and the same rule is valid for the eldest son of Andrea and Tatiana Casiraghi (who is born before their wedding and became legitimate some months after his birth).
 
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Stephanie's children with Ducret were both born before their parents' wedding but were fully legitimized (so like they were born after and not before the wedding) when the wedding happened because that are the rules of the house of Monaco and the same rule is valid for the eldest son of Andrea and Tatiana Casiraghi (who is born before their wedding and became legitimate some months after his birth)

Thanks for clearing that up. Does that mean Charlotte's kid will also become legitimate if she marries the baby-daddy?
 
Thanks for clearing that up. Does that mean Charlotte's kid will also become legitimate if she marries the baby-daddy?
Yes, exactly.

About your other question I do not remember Napoleon being against Pauline's second wedding (the matches he do not liked were Jerome's first, Lucien's second and also was not happy about Caroline's) and that match was arranged because the alliance was interesting for both sides (and Borghese was the kind of in-law in which Napoleon would have been interested before becoming Emperor), Paulina agreed because Rome, the title, the social status and the money.
 
About your other question I do not remember Napoleon being against Pauline's second wedding (the matches he do not liked were Jerome's first, Lucien's second and also was not happy about Caroline's) and that match was arranged because the alliance was interesting for both sides

I won't say against it, but as I said above, it was more that he said "you can wed when you're out of mourning for poor Leclerc" and then Pauline went and jumped the broom a couple months ahead of schedule at her darling mamma's urging.

As to those three matches, besides Jérôme's American wife, do you really blame him? Murat was a good soldier, but not good enough to restrain Caroline's ambitions, and Lucien's wife, the widow Jouberthon, no one was quite sure if M. Jouberthon was quite dead when she'd wed Lucien. I'm not saying that Napoléon was necessarily being reasonable in either case, but it was understandable why he reacted as he did.
 
I won't say against it, but as I said above, it was more that he said "you can wed when you're out of mourning for poor Leclerc" and then Pauline went and jumped the broom a couple months ahead of schedule at her darling mamma's urging.

As to those three matches, besides Jérôme's American wife, do you really blame him? Murat was a good soldier, but not good enough to restrain Caroline's ambitions, and Lucien's wife, the widow Jouberthon, no one was quite sure if M. Jouberthon was quite dead when she'd wed Lucien. I'm not saying that Napoléon was necessarily being reasonable in either case, but it was understandable why he reacted as he did.
Well Jerome was pretty stupid, Caroline also (but Napoleon objiected mostly because the low birth of Murat and is likely he accepted the wedding only because that was a shotgun wedding). About Lucien well, Napoleon's objection were pretty unreasonable at the time and caused mostly by his own ambition (and I think Napoleon was the one who had it wrong)
 
Well Jerome was pretty stupid, Caroline also (but Napoleon objiected mostly because the low birth of Murat and is likely he accepted the wedding only because that was a shotgun wedding). About Lucien well, Napoleon's objection were pretty unreasonable at the time and caused mostly by his own ambition (and I think Napoleon was the one who had it wrong)

Fair enough.

That said, do you think there's a hope in Hell of a Spanish marriage going through?
 
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