http://www.globeatwar.com/article/there-end-us-16th-armored-division%E2%80%99s-liberation-Plzen

It seemed that ol' Gen "I Read Your Book!" Patton was quite set on taking the city of Prague right as the uprising there took place and before the Soviets came in. Understandably, the Allied high command didn't want him going beyond the lines dividing Europe that was agreed on earlier by the leaders of the Allies, so that any...complications would arise after the war in Europe was over. So henceforth, its supreme commander, Eisenhower, ordered Patton to pull back, just as he was right nearby, and so he did.

But what would have happened if Pat went with his gut and disregarded the order to advance right into Prague? How would the Soviets respond and how would Pat act in turn? How would this effect the course of WWII and beyond?

I know that the German garrison there would have not much put up a fight there as their leader was more willing to surrender to the US than to the Soviets, and that the collaborationist ROA were involved, but that's something to keep in mind when I brought up post-war complications. That and Pat getting court-martialed in response, if he makes it alive that is.
 
The Allies actually seized some territory in Germany that was supposed to go to the Soviets. After 2 months they withdrew and handed the area over to the Soviets. The same thing is likely to happen with Prague, especially considering that the Americans didn't want it anyway. The Soviets are unlikely to attack the Americans and risk starting WWIII.
 
The Allies actually seized some territory in Germany that was supposed to go to the Soviets. After 2 months they withdrew and handed the area over to the Soviets. The same thing is likely to happen with Prague, especially considering that the Americans didn't want it anyway. The Soviets are unlikely to attack the Americans and risk starting WWIII.
I did not know that, and I'm quite aware the Soviets wouldn't start a conflict at the time (unless they were "pushed" to), but I have heard that Patton wanted to invade the USSR even though the Allies weren't geared up for it. I mean I know that he wouldn't start a conflict right away there (considering that Japan had to go) but wouldn't that lead to some accidental skirmish or so considering his loose cannon nature?
 

Deleted member 2186

http://www.globeatwar.com/article/there-end-us-16th-armored-division%E2%80%99s-liberation-Plzen

It seemed that ol' Gen "I Read Your Book!" Patton was quite set on taking the city of Prague right as the uprising there took place and before the Soviets came in. Understandably, the Allied high command didn't want him going beyond the lines dividing Europe that was agreed on earlier by the leaders of the Allies, so that any...complications would arise after the war in Europe was over. So henceforth, its supreme commander, Eisenhower, ordered Patton to pull back, just as he was right nearby, and so he did.

But what would have happened if Pat went with his gut and disregarded the order to advance right into Prague? How would the Soviets respond and how would Pat act in turn? How would this effect the course of WWII and beyond?

I know that the German garrison there would have not much put up a fight there as their leader was more willing to surrender to the US than to the Soviets, and that the collaborationist ROA were involved, but that's something to keep in mind when I brought up post-war complications. That and Pat getting court-martialed in response, if he makes it alive that is.
This is going to end Patton career i would think.
 
Well nothing much will change right afterwards. As OTL by end of 1945 both US and Soviet forces will withdraw. There were not Soviet troops stationed in Czechoslovakia till August 1968.
Maybe it can a bit change results of 1946 elections. Not sure though if by much. Communists or people closed to them already had key Ministries in Czechoslovak government from spring 1945.
 
Well nothing much will change right afterwards. As OTL by end of 1945 both US and Soviet forces will withdraw. There were not Soviet troops stationed in Czechoslovakia till August 1968.
Maybe it can a bit change results of 1946 elections. Not sure though if by much. Communists or people closed to them already had key Ministries in Czechoslovak government from spring 1945.
What if a firefight accidentally break out there? How would the Allies and Soviets react even though it would likely end in a ceasefire?
 
What if a firefight accidentally break out there? How would the Allies and Soviets react even though it would likely end in a ceasefire?
Party responsible would apologize and problem would be solved. In 1944 Soviet Yaks and American P-38s got into fight over Nis, Serbia. US pilots attacked Soviet transport column, Soviet commander called air covet. P-38s and Yaks got into fight. Both sides lost few planes, numbers varias. At least 1 US and 1 Soviet pilot got killed.

I read at least one similar incidents between P-51 and La-7 but on much smaller scale. US ambassador apologized for incident over Nis.
 
Party responsible would apologize and problem would be solved. In 1944 Soviet Yaks and American P-38s got into fight over Nis, Serbia. US pilots attacked Soviet transport column, Soviet commander called air covet. P-38s and Yaks got into fight. Both sides lost few planes, numbers varias. At least 1 US and 1 Soviet pilot got killed.

I read at least one similar incidents between P-51 and La-7 but on much smaller scale. US ambassador apologized for incident over Nis.
German Fighter pilot Erich Hartmann claimed to have witnessed dogfights between US and Soviet fighters twice during the war, I believe one of the fights involved P51's and La-7's.
 
German Fighter pilot Erich Hartmann claimed to have witnessed dogfights between US and Soviet fighters twice during the war, I believe one of the fights involved P51's and La-7's.
I believe Soviet fighter ace Schomorochov mentioned something like this in his memories too. He was flying La-7.
 
German Fighter pilot Erich Hartmann claimed to have witnessed dogfights between US and Soviet fighters twice during the war, I believe one of the fights involved P51's and La-7's.

On another note, IIRC he later reported that, following his capture, several Americans and Soviet soldiers nearly got into a firefight after the Americans attempted to intervene in order to prevent some rapes of local women.
 
I did not know that, and I'm quite aware the Soviets wouldn't start a conflict at the time (unless they were "pushed" to), but I have heard that Patton wanted to invade the USSR even though the Allies weren't geared up for it. I mean I know that he wouldn't start a conflict right away there (considering that Japan had to go) but wouldn't that lead to some accidental skirmish or so considering his loose cannon nature?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_contact The Allies had advanced well into the Soviet zone by the time of VE Day
 
Ike- who by the end of WWII was starting to
get a little tired of Patton- would have had him court-martialed & dismissed from the
army(a biographer of Patton noted that IOTL
"When Patton's particular talent was no longer needed---Eisenhower had not the slightest compunction in dismissing him. Cavalry commanders in the Napoleonic mould were no longer needed in the post-
war world.")*

*- Charles Whiting, PATTON(1970),pp. 156,
159. A volume in "Ballantine's Illustrated
History of WWII."
 

marathag

Banned
Ike- who by the end of WWII was starting to
get a little tired of Patton- would have had him court-martialed & dismissed from the
army(a biographer of Patton noted that IOTL
"When Patton's particular talent was no longer needed---Eisenhower had not the slightest compunction in dismissing him. Cavalry commanders in the Napoleonic mould were no longer needed in the post-war world.")*

Canning Patton might sound good in '45 over excesses against the Soviets, but it would get him elected in '48 for the Cold-War World
 
Canning Patton might sound good in '45 over excesses against the Soviets, but it would get him elected in '48 for the Cold-War World
That might make for an interesting TL, though I'd imagine his presence post-war would stoke paranoia in the Soviet leadership.
 
That might make for an interesting TL, though I'd imagine his presence post-war would stoke paranoia in the Soviet leadership.

After all, they have legitimate reasons and proofs to show that the Western Allies are not exactly trust-worthy, extremely anti-communist and have no qualm about invading the Soviet.

I think that they would milk the quote from Truman, then-US President even more. After all, an anti-Soviet was sitting in the top seat of American power, and another anti-Soviet field commander/high-rank commander just attacks them. It would be a safe bet to say that most of the US government was chilly to USSR at best and outright hostile at worst.

“If we see that Germany is winning we ought to help Russia and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible, although I don't want to see Hitler victorious under any circumstances.”

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/728071-if-we-see-that-germany-is-winning-we-ought-to
 
Ignoring an order from your superior doesnt go down too well with the superior and Patton can expect a firmly worded message to appear before Ike with his boots shined. If Patton ignores a direct order or accidentally doesnt get the order how soon can Ike get say Bradley over to Pattons HQ and get Patton on a fast plane to SHAEF.
 

kernals12

Banned
Canning Patton might sound good in '45 over excesses against the Soviets, but it would get him elected in '48 for the Cold-War World
In 1948, Americans weren't in the full anti-communist mood and they had no appetite for someone who tried to start another world war.
 
I could see Stalin using this to his advantage by say trying to gain either all of the Korean Peninsula, a split of Denmark, a warm water enclave in Norway or Iran similar to Kaliningrad if the West is willing to exchange it for Prague/Czechia.

If the West says yes, Communism gets a Western European enclave or a warm water port. If no, the West sticks its tail between its legs and whimpers off.
 
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