WI : Partially Averted 9/11, WTC saved by "Criminals"

ASUKIRIK

Banned
let's say that this happened in an alternate earth.

For coincidence and unrelated reasons, Flight 11 had a pair of Crips members inside, hiding their guns (and passed the airport security), while Flight 175 had a pair of Yakuza members inside, also with guns smuggled in.

When the original 9/11 hijackers tried to hijack the planes, things initially pass like OTL until someone overheard / realizes that the Arab Hijackers wanted to crash the plane into New York skyscrapers... and not wanting to die, the members of the Organized crime basically draw their guns and taking the Al Qaeda hijackers by surprise. Killing them before ordering whoever could pilot the planes (esp if the pilots / copilots survives) to land the planes in emergency landing.

Both plane lands in relative safety at sea and being evacuated. The "Criminal Heroes" surrenders themselves (either out of epiphany, or because they exhausted their ammo, take your pick).

Flight 77 still crashed into Pentagon and Flight 93 also still crashed more or leds like OTL.

What will happen next when Public knew that the True Heroes who saves not only flight 11 and flight 175, but also WTC, are members of the Organized Crime?
 
How the shit do gang members and the fucking Yakuza get guns onto a plane in America anyway? Does the Logan Airport TSA all collectively go to Starbucks at once and let these guys get through? Do a few Crips and Yakuza guys know show tunes?

One possibility I have heard of that may be ASB or may just be rare - I have heard of a gun made of porcelain that can give a metal detector the slip. It wouldn’t work today since TSA body scanners are detailed enough to tell what you had for breakfast three weeks ago, let alone spot something that looks like a gun, but before 9/11 happened it may have theoretically worked - that is, if they could smuggle the ammo on board.

Somehow these guys will have to be crafty enough to get guns on board. The Yakuza could do it - but why? Organized criminals are best if they fly under the radar, and causing a potential problem at an airport is a surefire way to fuck that up. Same with the Crips - they don’t want to cause suspicion and bringing a gun on board if it means they end up going to prison for something with such a small payoff (in their eyes; they wouldn’t have any idea they would be stopping 9/11 when they boarded.)

A more plausible scenario is that you get some people on board who are of poor reputation - Crips, Yakuza, even petty thieves or drug dealers - and they have enough strength to overpower the hijackers AND enough foresight to recognize that these aren’t just a few assholes who want to go to Cuba. My thought - the strongest ones break off the trays on the back of the seat or borrow someone’s luggage for defense; meanwhile, they fight the hijackers hand-to-hand when they see that all they have is box cutters and overpower then. The hijackers spend the rest of the flight stuffed in the overhead bins or something and are promptly arrested when they land in LA; that or the flight is redirected to...I don’t know, Cleveland to arrest the fuckers early.
 

ASUKIRIK

Banned
Umm well, maybe I did underestimated the "pre 9/11 flight security are pretty lax" thing.

But yeah, if not guns, have the Crips and Yakuza end up beating up the hijackers in Hand to Hand.
 
It’s likely one or both planes crash after non-professionals start shooting inside a flying aircraft at high altitude, causing depressurisation, which has decent chances of leading to a loss of control.
 
Umm well, maybe I did underestimated the "pre 9/11 flight security are pretty lax" thing.

But yeah, if not guns, have the Crips and Yakuza end up beating up the hijackers in Hand to Hand.

That...would be awesome. The only thing they would need is the foresight to understand that the hijackers were employing some sort of Kansas City Shuffle and actually being able to figure out that they were in grave danger. I’m not sure what would tip them off, but if it did, a group of Crips or Yakuza (a) probably could overpower five dickweeds with box cutters and (b) would be less afraid of such a weapon than the average passenger.
 
That...would be awesome. The only thing they would need is the foresight to understand that the hijackers were employing some sort of Kansas City Shuffle and actually being able to figure out that they were in grave danger. I’m not sure what would tip them off, but if it did, a group of Crips or Yakuza (a) probably could overpower five dickweeds with box cutters and (b) would be less afraid of such a weapon than the average passenger.
Thing is, it’s indeed not a question of tools but of people. Get someone with even a bit of training in that situation and things change very hard. Look at the Thalys attack attempt. Two guys with military training overpowered the would-be shooter. Flight 93 also showed what happens when the mindset shifts: when the passengers realized it was do or die rather than a classical hijacking, it was over. It’s one of the reasons I roll a bit my eyes at the paranoia nowadays: the most important thing that has happened on that day was to change the mindset of all passengers for decades onwards. A guy with a knife in an airliner would not be able to keep any form of control for longer than the time needed for the passengers to make their peace. 200 unarmed people with nothing to lose are one hell of a different problem to manage than those same people afraid for their life. 9/11 could be done exactly once: millions of years of evolution led to the same reactions to mortal danger for all animals, first you run, if it doesn’t work, you hide. If it cannot be done, you fight, and in a plane, options 1 and 2 are both out so once successful hijacking is understood as death...

Considering the OP situation, the outcome mostly depends on whether the hijackers could get to the cockpit before the counterattack. If they did, a struggle in the cockpit would probably lead to a crash. See 93. Same for a gunfight, as I wrote earlier.
 
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How the shit do gang members and the fucking Yakuza get guns onto a plane in America anyway? Does the Logan Airport TSA all collectively go to Starbucks at once and let these guys get through? Do a few Crips and Yakuza guys know show tunes?

One possibility I have heard of that may be ASB or may just be rare - I have heard of a gun made of porcelain that can give a metal detector the slip. It wouldn’t work today since TSA body scanners are detailed enough to tell what you had for breakfast three weeks ago, let alone spot something that looks like a gun, but before 9/11 happened it may have theoretically worked - that is, if they could smuggle the ammo on board.

Somehow these guys will have to be crafty enough to get guns on board. The Yakuza could do it - but why? Organized criminals are best if they fly under the radar, and causing a potential problem at an airport is a surefire way to fuck that up. Same with the Crips - they don’t want to cause suspicion and bringing a gun on board if it means they end up going to prison for something with such a small payoff (in their eyes; they wouldn’t have any idea they would be stopping 9/11 when they boarded.)

A more plausible scenario is that you get some people on board who are of poor reputation - Crips, Yakuza, even petty thieves or drug dealers - and they have enough strength to overpower the hijackers AND enough foresight to recognize that these aren’t just a few assholes who want to go to Cuba. My thought - the strongest ones break off the trays on the back of the seat or borrow someone’s luggage for defense; meanwhile, they fight the hijackers hand-to-hand when they see that all they have is box cutters and overpower then. The hijackers spend the rest of the flight stuffed in the overhead bins or something and are promptly arrested when they land in LA; that or the flight is redirected to...I don’t know, Cleveland to arrest the fuckers early.

Wait, I thought the American TSA was created right after 9/11 as a response to aeroport security by President Bush Jr ?
 
Wait, I thought the American TSA was created right after 9/11 as a response to aeroport security by President Bush Jr ?

The agency might have been created after 9/11, but any airport security worth its salt, especially in a big city like Boston, would have stopped a bunch of guys with guns.
 
Umm well, maybe I did underestimated the "pre 9/11 flight security are pretty lax" thing.

But yeah, if not guns, have the Crips and Yakuza end up beating up the hijackers in Hand to Hand.
The notion of having martial arts experts on board is not ASB. But putting them on more than one plane might be difficult.
 
The notion of having martial arts experts on board is not ASB. But putting them on more than one plane might be difficult.
Who needs martial arts experts? Half a dozen people with knives in close quarters against 200 people who realize they WILL die and possibly with their kids - if they are onboard too - if they do not kill the assholes right away ends up one way and one way only. It’s not a situation where people can rationalize about waiting for the police, running or hiding, and that means a situation where your average civilian tends to become a shitload more dangerous. An attack in a building or a train or even a ship, and people can try to run, to hide, to bid for time. In a flying plane, with the absolute knowledge that the goal of the hijackers is to kill everybody and noone can help?

Six knives aren’t nearly enough to stop such an opponent.
 
Even after years of the TSA and their training, those screeners can't detect weapons regularly even today. So I wouldn't bet that a private security firm would do any better in 2001.

Metal detectors are pretty sensitive. I get dinged for metal inside a suit jacket going to court. Multiple people with firearms would have been caught. One guy...I suppose it could have happened but they would have had to be a hell of a shot to take down all five hijackers.

Taking them on by overpowering them would have worked better.
 

nbcman

Donor
Metal detectors are pretty sensitive. I get dinged for metal inside a suit jacket going to court. Multiple people with firearms would have been caught. One guy...I suppose it could have happened but they would have had to be a hell of a shot to take down all five hijackers.

Taking them on by overpowering them would have worked better.
Bribery to allow contraband and weapons to bypass an airport security checkpoint happens today. With money and prior planning, it could be done.
 

Bomster

Banned
let's say that this happened in an alternate earth.

For coincidence and unrelated reasons, Flight 11 had a pair of Crips members inside, hiding their guns (and passed the airport security), while Flight 175 had a pair of Yakuza members inside, also with guns smuggled in.

When the original 9/11 hijackers tried to hijack the planes, things initially pass like OTL until someone overheard / realizes that the Arab Hijackers wanted to crash the plane into New York skyscrapers... and not wanting to die, the members of the Organized crime basically draw their guns and taking the Al Qaeda hijackers by surprise. Killing them before ordering whoever could pilot the planes (esp if the pilots / copilots survives) to land the planes in emergency landing.

Both plane lands in relative safety at sea and being evacuated. The "Criminal Heroes" surrenders themselves (either out of epiphany, or because they exhausted their ammo, take your pick).

Flight 77 still crashed into Pentagon and Flight 93 also still crashed more or leds like OTL.

What will happen next when Public knew that the True Heroes who saves not only flight 11 and flight 175, but also WTC, are members of the Organized Crime?
Zangief you are bad guy, but this does not mean you are bad guy
 
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