WI: P.G.T Beauregard given command of New Orleans at the begging of the ACW?

ben0628

Banned
Is there any way to make Beauregard the commander of New Orleans' defenses during the Civil War? Would Beauregard do a better job at defending the city (he did really well at defending Charleston in 1863, is from Louisiana, and had a military career as an engineer)?
 
I'm not sure New Orleans could be held in the face of a North attack and a bombardment, but maybe I'm overestimating the size of the attack. It was about 15K attackers right?
 

Saphroneth

Banned
I'm not sure New Orleans could be held in the face of a North attack and a bombardment, but maybe I'm overestimating the size of the attack. It was about 15K attackers right?
The important bit was that it was a fleet that captured Nawlins.

I think you could have New Orleans hold, PGT Beauregard was an engineering expert and with nearly a year to work on it he could have the place pretty well protected. He'd also probably put a high enough priority on completing the ironclads - OTL the Confederacy kept nearly finishing ironclads, if TTL they keep actually finishing them it can only be good for their chances.
 
So basically if they finish their ironclads Beauregard has a chance and if they don't finish the ironclads, well.. they're sunk
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Beauregard as an excellent military engineer and knew artillery backwards and forwards. He also knew New Orleans and its surrounding area like the back his hand. In 1863 and early 1864, he did a very good job of defending Charleston against Union naval attack. He was the darling of Louisiana and the people of New Orleans would have had confidence in him. His credibility might have allowed him to cut through the red tape to get the ironclads finished. All things considered, he would be the ideal commander to protect the city.
 
Ok, so basically ironclades give them a chance and if he doesn't get the ironclads, New Orleans and its pitiful coastal guns are doomed.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Ok, so basically ironclades give them a chance and if he doesn't get the ironclads, New Orleans and its pitiful coastal guns are doomed.
It didn't really have "pitiful" coastal guns, and a year's work by Beauregard would have a good chance of improving the situation substantially. If nothing else New Orleans is the largest city in the Confederacy and has some genuine organic construction capacity. That said, the ironclads would help out a lot - but the forts themselves actually held out fairly well.
If you add good bomb-proofs, some hot-shot furnaces and have Beauregard focus on defending the city from the south instead of from the north, then you've got a much better situation.

As for the ironclads, Louisiana was very well built and (again) hot-shot guns would have made her much more effective, as would better engines. She definitely had some non-combat flaws though.
Mississippi would have been (as far as we can tell) somewhat better again, with some very thick armour that appears to have been hammered. She had better engines (the size was increased during building to fit the required boilers) and was more heavily armed.

You seem to like to simplify things hugely, as far as I can tell.
 
As for the ironclads, Louisiana was very well built and (again) hot-shot guns would have made her much more effective, as would better engines. She definitely had some non-combat flaws though.
Mississippi would have been (as far as we can tell) somewhat better again, with some very thick armour that appears to have been hammered. She had better engines (the size was increased during building to fit the required boilers) and was more heavily armed.

Yeah, a completed ironclad instead of an almost done one would make a huge difference.

You seem to like to simplify things hugely, as far as I can tell.

Ehhh... sometimes. I think this case can be simplified to "does he get the ironclades." If he gets turned down or the appropriate building crew comes down with (insert communicable disease here) it's an uphill fight. Can we get some good bomb-proofs in time?
 

Saphroneth

Banned
If he gets turned down or the appropriate building crew comes down with (insert communicable disease here) it's an uphill fight.
The problem was literally that those building the ironclads were required to do militia drill. Beauregard could easily have been on-the-ball enough to stop that.

Can we get some good bomb-proofs in time?
Given that the attack OTL came in May and that the ACW kicked off in April? Thirteen months is long enough to do a fair amount of work, and bomb-proofs are not trivial but they're also quite doable.
 
The problem was literally that those building the ironclads were required to do militia drill. Beauregard could easily have been on-the-ball enough to stop that.

I totally forgot about that. So if Beauregard is in charge, that problem is solved. If... he gets them started on the drill, the defense should proceed smoothly unless... we have two PODs. One putting Beaugrad in charge a New Orleans and one making the crew unavailable for something other than a drill.

Many, the single POD of Beauregard in charge is a huge headache for the North. It's not a war winner but it changes a lot.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Many, the single POD of Beauregard in charge is a huge headache for the North. It's not a war winner but it changes a lot.

Not a war winner in itself (even the loss of the entire fleet would not lose the war for the North), but its knock-on effects would be enormous. For one thing, the fall of New Orleans was a major factor in keeping the European nations from recognizing the Confederacy.
 
Not a war winner in itself (even the loss of the entire fleet would not lose the war for the North), but its knock-on effects would be enormous. For one thing, the fall of New Orleans was a major factor in keeping the European nations from recognizing the Confederacy.

Then Lee will lose at Antidem and convince the Europeans otherwise, and the EP makes it even worse.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
The attack was in April, not May.
Whoops, my mistake - misread Wiki on Capture of New Orleans, which has that event end on May 1.

Then Lee will lose at Antidem and convince the Europeans otherwise, and the EP makes it even worse.
Um... firstly, the Emancipation Proclamation didn't do a great deal about the probability of European recognition. It was seen as kind of hypocritical.

For another, if Napoleon III makes his mind up in July then Antietam is in the future if not impossible. (July's a good time for it, as that's when Napoleon III is making his decision whether to escalate in Mexico or go do something else - and it's also when the cotton famine is really starting to bite.)
 
Would this butterfly away Shiloh? It was Beauregard's idea, and amassing the army for the Shiloh attack weakened Confederate defenses throughout the West, including New Orleans.
 
I though the continental Europeans were too dense to see the EP as hypocritical until after the fact? That's what my friends in Southern USA say and it comes right out from the approved textbooks.

Not to say they can't get things wrong now and then, but the textbooks are usually more reliable than internet sources that don't have a print footprint (even sites that were founded by historians)

Anyways, the Euroepans wanted to make sure not to back losing rebels. A victory at New Orleans makes things look hopeful for them, but Napoleon III isn't going to make up his mind until he sees one more action near the two capitals, and we all know how that's going to end up as.
 

Japhy

Banned
I though the continental Europeans were too dense to see the EP as hypocritical until after the fact?
It wasn't. Full stop. Do more critical research, there's plenty of a print footprint about it.

In regards to the OP the big issue, IMO is what happens when the Confederate lines in Kentucky and Tennessee break? IOTL AS Johnson was forced to strip the New Orleans Garrison to help build up the Army he used at Shiloh. Without the imminent threat of Union landings any moment, how much of a force can Beauregard fight to hold onto? And what happens when his usually grandiose plans meet the reality of the reduced garrison?
 

ben0628

Banned
I think we need to keep in mind a few things here if Beauregard gets command of New Orleans at the very beginning.

1) Fort Sumter is delayed/altered.
2) Bull Run has a different commander (Johnston only commanded Shedendoah forces).
3) Beauregard In charge of forces in Louisiana means Bragg starts out with a different military position.
4) Shiloh is butterflied.
 
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