WI:OTL Belarus and Ukraine become catholic

Assuming that without the Mongol invasion, the POD is Genghis Khan failing, the Rus states would be less isolated than OTL is it possible for both Kiev, Galicia-Volhynia and Polotsk to be Catholicized and if they are catholicized what would happen to Muscovy and Novgorod?
 

MSZ

Banned
It is unlikely, but should it happen I suppose that Ukraine might adopt the Latin alphabet and strenghen it's ties with the west. Although the butterflies of Ukraine not falling to the Mongols would make the question of religion of little importance...
 
It is unlikely, but should it happen I suppose that Ukraine might adopt the Latin alphabet and strenghen it's ties with the west. Although the butterflies of Ukraine not falling to the Mongols would make the question of religion of little importance...

Yeah, no.

At the time the Mongol invasion is scheduled to occur the Slavs have their own concerns to be dealing with. Rome has absolutely nothing to offer them, being too far away to be relevant. They aren't going to change the script they've been using for centuries, and they aren't going to change their religion into one that gives the Pope influence over their rulers. Not having that was pretty much exactly how the Orthodox Church got started.
 
Yeah, no.

At the time the Mongol invasion is scheduled to occur the Slavs have their own concerns to be dealing with. Rome has absolutely nothing to offer them, being too far away to be relevant. They aren't going to change the script they've been using for centuries, and they aren't going to change their religion into one that gives the Pope influence over their rulers. Not having that was pretty much exactly how the Orthodox Church got started.

Rome can offer a royal crown, which not only gives prestige but also diplomatic leverage towards other catholic rulers. It happened OTL with Daniel of Halych-Volhyania, but it didn't last. Still it was plausible option IMO, especially with Halych-Volhynia.
 
I don't see those lands becoming Catholic on their own, but major parts of both Belarus and Ukraine were ruled by Lithuania and later Poland-Lithuania. If the Slavic lands east of them remain disunited and Moscow (or any other contender for unifying the Greater Russians like Tver or Novgorod) isn't able to beat back the Catholic Poles/Lithuanians, then those areas might become more and more Catholicized, but probably not until the late 1600s and 1700s.

They might retain much of their Orthodoxy, but still be in communion with Rome - a larger uniate/Greek Catholic Church. IOTL, resentment against perceived Polonization/Catholicization lead to the Cossack Rebellion against the Poles in 1648. Without a powerful Muscovy, conditions might change so that such a revolt never takes place, or at least is not successful.
 
Alternatively, the Rus' lands would have been partitioned between the Catholic nations of Poland and Lithuania and the purely Turco-Mongol Golden Horde. Depending on which religion would the Golden Horde choose, that would be the outcome of the Great Russian culture.
 
Rome can offer a royal crown, which not only gives prestige but also diplomatic leverage towards other catholic rulers. It happened OTL with Daniel of Halych-Volhyania, but it didn't last. Still it was plausible option IMO, especially with Halych-Volhynia.

If they offered them a royal title and the Kievan duke seriously considered conversion then the Patriarch will give him the crown of the King of Rus or whatever they call it, if Russia goes catholic then Orthodoxy has completely failed.
 
I don't see those lands becoming Catholic on their own, but major parts of both Belarus and Ukraine were ruled by Lithuania and later Poland-Lithuania. If the Slavic lands east of them remain disunited and Moscow (or any other contender for unifying the Greater Russians like Tver or Novgorod) isn't able to beat back the Catholic Poles/Lithuanians, then those areas might become more and more Catholicized, but probably not until the late 1600s and 1700s.

They might retain much of their Orthodoxy, but still be in communion with Rome - a larger uniate/Greek Catholic Church. IOTL, resentment against perceived Polonization/Catholicization lead to the Cossack Rebellion against the Poles in 1648. Without a powerful Muscovy, conditions might change so that such a revolt never takes place, or at least is not successful.

I agree, not the entire Ukraine and Belarus, but the Western parts, as mentioned ruled by Lithuania and later Poland-Lithuania might become (more) Catholic.
 
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