WI: Operation Valkyrie

Yes, very true! :D He was definitely one of the "good guys" as far as postwar British and American military historians were concerned...

So, who do you see assuming the role of figurehead for any military regime Guderian and friends managed to cobble together? One of the surviving Nazi hierarchs - Goering, as the legal successor? Or somebody else? If Rommel sides with them, as he well might, I can see them appointing him to some high military command like OB West or something (if he's fit enough by then) to try and use his personal popularity with civilians etc to shore up their support.

Although even if they did do that, I very much doubt it would play out like Fox on the Rhine, which was more than a bit wanky imho...

Guderian would install himself...don't forget on top of being a ruthless political hack, he was also a hardcore nazi (as much as he pretended not to be in his book)... I assume between the plotters and or guderian's house cleaning Goering would probably be iced (most icing done by Guderian... since the plotters wanted to arrest people... Guderian had no such qualms and would have steeled himself quite easily to execute anyone and everyone he felt necessary to assure his mission would succeed)... the party could coalesce around Guderian anyway... he has nazi credentials; speer and the eastern marshals where tight with him, and everyone else he would need to work with (except kluge who he would line up against a wall) could play ball with him

Rommel had philisophical disagreements with Guderian, but he could work for and under him without bitching (so long as his position was confirmed and Guderian didn't interfere with his management of the front too much)
 

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Would Guderian really have being able to do it? In 1944 he was still just a Generaloberst, which means that he's outranked by all those Field Marshals.

Also, what was his exactly position during the coup, I seem to remember that he was the chief of staff of OKH.

And of course, he can't just ignore Himmler, Speer, and Goebbels, He would definitely still need an alliance with one or more of them
 
Would Guderian really have being able to do it? In 1944 he was still just a Generaloberst, which means that he's outranked by all those Field Marshals.

Also, what was his exactly position during the coup, I seem to remember that he was the chief of staff of OKH.

And of course, he can't just ignore Himmler, Speer, and Goebbels, He would definitely still need an alliance with one or more of them

His generaloberst position was pretty nominal since he didn't have field command... Zeitzler and Jodl where both generaloberst yet they wrote the orders that went to Manstein and Model

Guderian becoming chief of staff to the OKH didn't happen till after the coup attempt (probably a back handed reward for not backing the plotters) and also because Zeitzler had been handing in his resignation more or less daily since Manstein and Kleist got fired

Guderian's actual position was chief of the armored inspectorate, and as such he was technically commander of all mobile troops in the army AND the waffen ss AND all training formations... in practice he was in charge of all training and reforming mobile divisions and their instruction/kitting.... he was also laison between the field mobile divisions and the armaments industry and had direct access to speer

I assume Himmler and Goering (both on and off enemies of Guderian anyway) would get iced either by the plotters or barring that definently by Guderian. Guderian would leave speer in charge, he liked speer and they worked well together... after taking care of just a few of the party big wigs (certainly no more than 2 dozen plus the plotters) Guderian could assume leadership of the party without any special resistance... the eastern marshals like him and two out out of the three western ones can work with him... there would be little threat to his power base after 2 days of executions
 

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Not Goering: he was disgraced by this point I meant Goebbels

As to "icing" Himmler, I'm really not sure of that due to the sheer amount of political power he and the SS has. Besides, Himmler would outright back the coup if it looks like what's best for him.

And the Party...Guderian wasn't even a member, I doubt the Party would follow him, perhaps he could ally with Bormann or Goebbels.
 
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Not Goering: he was disgraced by this point I meant Goebbels

As to "icing" Himmler, I'm really not sure of that due to the sheer amount of political power he and the SS has. Besides, Himmler would outright back the coup if it looks like what's best for him.

And the Party...Guderian wasn't even a member, I doubt the Party would follow him, perhaps he could ally with Bormann or Goebbels.

He was an early and long time supporter and taken personally under Hitler's wing... outside of Reichenau (when he was alive) no other officer enjoyed as many political favors and as much political love as Guderian, his place in the party was a high one, paperwork or no paper work

Himmler and Goering had fallen out at this point...the plotters can't leave them around and still have some semblance of order or reasonably expect to maintain power (at minimum they would arrest them)... Guderian who like I said was an off again, on again enemy of both men would have no special compunction about icing either one of them... he would just name Dietrich (who was a long time buddy of his) to be head of the SS... dietrich had long deep ties to the berlin guard and the berlin police force, he could order the SD and gestapo to stand down... or barring that (or in the need of speed) Guderian could simply have the tanks intimidate the police if they got any ideas about not liking their new panzerfuhrer

I don't know what his relationship was like with Bormann (it was very bad with Goebbles at the end; I don't know about 44)... if they want to play ball and be part of the tapestry surrounding his junta maybe he would let them stay on... although in all likelyhood he would just as soon kill them and surround himself with heer fellows in all important positions
 
I could see Goering just being bypassed - I mean, being the designated successor wouldn't mean a thing. It's not as if Nazi Germany was big on the rule of law etc... I was checking out Guderian's book again last night, and he mentions what a good friend of his Erhard Milch was, so he could get the chief of the Luftwaffe job.

Goebbels might just kill himself anyway when he finds out Hitler's dead - he was a pretty devoted disciple really.

Bormann, I always imagine being first up against the wall in any post-Hitler Nazi scenario. I mean, what's his power base once Hitler's dead, exactly? Nevertheless, he was a pretty wily operator and probably too dangerous to be allowed to live. I don't know, though, he might get out of it somehow...

Speer is going to be in tight with whoever comes out of Valkyrie on top, probably filling some senior position and loudly pronouncing how he never liked whoever it was who just lost out in all the coups and counter-coups... :D He's a survivor. Actually, weren't Beck and co going to keep him on as armaments minister even if they succeeded in overthrowing the Nazis?

Other thoughts:

Despite me going on about Rommel above, realistically he isn't going to play much of a part until the dust has settled over Berlin, really. He was wounded on July 17, iirc, and still won't be fit for active service until at least the time of his OTL death, and probably not for a good while after that, if ever depending on how long the war lasts. I think if Kluge gets the elbow, as seems very likely if any pro-Nazi regime retains control of Germany, then I think Model would probably get Army Group B as per OTL with Rundstedt brought back as OB West for the time being. And Model will personally fight to the death as per OTL, however bad the logistics/morale situation around him. Of course, Rommel's endorsement could still prove to be very important for whoever ends up running Germany, given his popularity with the civilian population.

What about Italy? In OTL, Karl Wolff and other leading Nazis down there opened peace negotiations with the Allies a couple of months before the end of the war and ended up surrendering the German forces in Italy days before VE Day. In this scenario, with things bad on all fronts, with Germany's eastern allies falling like a row of dominoes and the possibility of chaos at the centre while things are sorting themselves out, would Wolff and co start those peace overtures a few months earlier than OTL?
 
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