WI: Operation Paperclip failed&USSR gained OTL US Nazi Scientists&Materials instead?

How would this effect the post war climate? Are International relations better or worse? Would this change make the Cold War worse or butterfly it away? How much of A boost to the Soviet Union would the captured Scientists, Equipment, Materials, Prototypes, Samples & Blueprints/Technical Drawings provide? How many years could be knocked off the development process of existing Soviet projects? What avenues may be explored & developed that were not in OTL USSR? Would the Soviet Nuke program be accelerated?
 
Recently watched A Documentary about the Horten Flying Wing Jet Fighter & the proposed designs for A Long Range, Flying Wing Jet Bomber. In this Time Line Would the Soviets gaining these projects result in them being copied&adopted rapidly or would they only be used for inspiration for the next generation of home grown Soviet Aircraft being developed?
 
Recently watched A Documentary about the Horten Flying Wing Jet Fighter & the proposed designs for A Long Range, Flying Wing Jet Bomber. In this Time Line Would the Soviets gaining these projects result in them being copied&adopted rapidly or would they only be used for inspiration for the next generation of home grown Soviet Aircraft being developed?
No, flying wings only became viable with the advent of computer assisted piloting, look at the US YB-49 and its issues, chances are this will make the soviets waste more efoort, whatever they try the US will try to one up
 
Probably not many years would be knocked off. The Soviets IOTL got plenty of Germans and captured aircraft and tanks. Their rocket program, after the first few R-series designs, was almost entirely indigenous. The most this will do is probably leave the US a bit worse prepared when they start getting into the ballistic missile game circa 1951 (Von Braun established the Army's missile laboratories and taught quite a few American engineers. Without him, there will be fewer people with the experience of handling live rockets in the US).
 
No, flying wings only became viable with the advent of computer assisted piloting, look at the US YB-49 and its issues, chances are this will make the soviets waste more efoort, whatever they try the US will try to one up
From what I understand, the Northrop flying wings suffered from poor stability as a result of having virtually no sweeping on the wings, a problem that was not so severe with the Horten designs as a result of their having a greater degree of sweep on the wings. I suspect a flying-wing/BWB design with an almost deltoid sweep would have plenty of stability.
 
From what I understand, the Northrop flying wings suffered from poor stability as a result of having virtually no sweeping on the wings, a problem that was not so severe with the Horten designs as a result of their having a greater degree of sweep on the wings. I suspect a flying-wing/BWB design with an almost deltoid sweep would have plenty of stability.
Maybe but it still won't be a game changer, Horton's designs still suffered from some lateral instability and were more difficult to pilot than conventional aircraft, chances are the USSR ends up wasting money on flying wings just like the USAF

Anyways back to the OP, USSR nuclear program will stay on schedule, it was mostly based on stolen US data anyways
 
Paperclip isn't exactly a legend, but it certainly has the makings of a modern myth. There was no race for the scienntific legacy of the Third Reich, and while all Allies were more than willing to grab whatever chunks looked valuable and deny them to the rest, the US army did not keep snatch lists of the scientists and plans they wanted, and neither did the Soviets. If the Americans had been less ready to take in German scientists and engineers, it is unlikely the Soviets would have been much more successful. These guys were not going to wait around to greet the frontovniks, and their privileged position meant they could escape west. A couple more of them would be facing trial for their crimes (you know how the British felt about von Braun), but the most likely outcome is that some unnamed NASA engineering group comes up with the ideas von Braun built his legend on, West Germany's industry gains a few talented engineers, and the Soviet space and nuclear programmes proceed as per OTL. There wouldn't really be any difference in international relations because the western Allies had enough evidence no longer to trust Stalin no matter what happened to the rockets at Peenemünde, and stalin had never truisted the Western Allies in the first place.
 
Also, could anyone explain to me how Paperclip would fail to bag at least von Braun when he was actively seeking out capture by the WAllies just to stay out of Soviet hands?
 
Also, could anyone explain to me how Paperclip would fail to bag at least von Braun when he was actively seeking out capture by the WAllies just to stay out of Soviet hands?

It's not a matter of bagging him, it's a matter of keeping him. Once he's processed as a regular prisoner (his SS rank would make that possible), the British might ask for him to be handed over for trial. Or he could end up a minor defendant later in the Nuremberg trials, charged with war crimes against British civilians. Or he could just be processed, detained, and released to fend for himself. Without Paperclip, Mr von Braun may well end up designing industrial boilers for Junkers. He was a competent engineer, but no law in the world says he has to build rockets.
 
Designing a new weapon is not the sort of basis most people would give for a war-crime. Besides the British and American killed far more Germans with terror-bombing than the Germans ever killed British. As for after any imprisonment, he'd probably still get snapped up by the Americans.
 

Anderman

Donor
It's not a matter of bagging him, it's a matter of keeping him. Once he's processed as a regular prisoner (his SS rank would make that possible), the British might ask for him to be handed over for trial. Or he could end up a minor defendant later in the Nuremberg trials, charged with war crimes against British civilians. Or he could just be processed, detained, and released to fend for himself. Without Paperclip, Mr von Braun may well end up designing industrial boilers for Junkers. He was a competent engineer, but no law in the world says he has to build rockets.

What would this trial about ?
 
How would this effect the post war climate? Are International relations better or worse? Would this change make the Cold War worse or butterfly it away? How much of A boost to the Soviet Union would the captured Scientists, Equipment, Materials, Prototypes, Samples & Blueprints/Technical Drawings provide? How many years could be knocked off the development process of existing Soviet projects? What avenues may be explored & developed that were not in OTL USSR? Would the Soviet Nuke program be accelerated?

The Soviets did actually get a large number of V-2s and people who knew how to design them (see http://www.astronautix.com/fam/earsiles.htm ). The Germans, though, were quickly overruled on any design issues. Von Braun, for one, would likely have shot himself rather than work for the Soviets (and the Soviets would be happy to oblige). So, no real influence on early Soviet missiles.

It would have had a larger effect in the US, but not disastrously so. Atlas was already in development, and Viking/Vanguard would be the first US launch vehicle. In fact, the larger effect may well have been to make the US space program much more military-centric, as without Von Braun's pre-NASA popularization of space, Ike may not have bothered to create a civilian space agency...
 
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