WI Oder-Neisse line isn't accepted?

archaeogeek

Banned
What would be the ramifications of the German-Polish frontier not being fixed at the Oder-Neisse line?

Stalin still retakes the ukrainian, belarussian and lithuanian lands from Poland.
Adenauer is now from mildly against to firmly opposed to the very notion of reunification, ever, until he dies.
Old Prussia still likely gets split between Russia and Poland. Or it might be entirely given to Poland as compensation for not getting Silesia, Pomerania and the Neumark. Pole-trolls on TTL's wikipedia will now insist that Krolewiec has been polish since the bronze age.
West Germany probably still keeps claiming the old border anyway even if its first chancellor is still a bitter enemy of the idea of actually doing anything towards regaining the east (especially because it means even more socialists and protestants).
 
What would be the ramifications of the German-Polish frontier not being fixed at the Oder-Neisse line?

If Poland lost some territories in the east (east of the Bug and San rivers), Germany will also lost some territories in the east.

- East Prussia was condemned in every case as being the land of origin of the evils germans Junkers with a monocle trying two times to conquer the world...
Also because the Soviet Union wanted a port in warm waters : Konigsberg - Kaliningrad. And also because part of east Prussia had mixed population (Masuria).

- Upper Silesia, the industrial region will be annexed to Poland because of it's economic value and mixed population.

- Oppeln-Opole region (central Silesia) had also some mixed population ?

- Some borders adjustments on the Pomeranian coast will also give some small territory to Poland with mixed population where Germans, Poles and Cashubians lived, west of the Vistula river...

- Dantzig - Gdansk will be probably annexed to Poland because it is at the mouth of the Vistula river who flows in all Poland and it will give Poland a big port...

Others possibilities :

The Oder-Neisse borders could be on the other Neiss, two rivers had similars names in western Silesia...


The main reason to give Poland the Oder-Neiss border was to restore Poland in its "historical" borders of 1000-1100 when in the east Poland didn't expand in the ruthenian principalities... It was a propaganda tool of the communists to decribe these borders as "historicals" and justify end of polish expansion in the east.

Also, with a western border very close to Berlin, a united Germany will be forever at the mercy of the power being dominant in Poland (the Soviet Union) and Poland after annexing some much germans lands will be forever thankfum to the Soviet Union and in need to have a protector against the evil Germans who will fight one day round n+1...

Divide for a better conquer...


Poles didn't have really choice of its borders in 1945, the Soviet Union and Stalin decided were the borders will be and the population were "transferred", "rapatriated"...

EDIT and ADD INFOS
 
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So the Poles get screwed regardless?

Methinks the Polish Wikipedia trolls exist because they always got screwed over in OTL.
 

archaeogeek

Banned
So the Poles get screwed regardless?

Methinks the Polish Wikipedia trolls exist because they always got screwed over in OTL.

They were not going to keep opportunistic conquests where poles were less than 20%, no. The curzon line is as much "getting screwed" as Wales not getting London was "getting screwed"

Also to a large extent the only allied country to seriously support mega-Poland had been France.
 
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They were not going to keep opportunistic conquests where poles were less than 20%, no. The curzon line is as much "getting screwed" as Wales not getting London was "getting screwed"

Also to a large extent the only allied country to seriously support mega-Poland had been France.

You have a B version of the Curzon line where Lvov was given to the Poles.

In 1945, most Poles thought that keeping Vilnius was not realistic but keeping Lvov was very important for them.

Of course, it will give the new Poland a large Ukrainian problem to resolve but Stalin and the communists never had problems to resolve this kind of problem : expulsion and transfer of population...

Pre-war : Poland had five of its importants historical cities in its borders : Poznan (capital of Grande Pologne), Cracow (capital of Little Poland and old capital), Warsaw the capital, Vilnius or Wilno : capital of Lithunia, and Lwow, polish capital of the east (I don't sure...) ???
 
Hmm, in my "Hitler's Mediterranean Strategy" I had Germany's new east border at the length of Brandenburg's east border, roughly. So, Poland would get East Prussia, half of Silesia and less than half of Pomerania. They'd get the Curzon line in the east, but keep Lemberg / Lvov.
 

Maur

Banned
They were not going to keep opportunistic conquests where poles were less than 20%, no. The curzon line is as much "getting screwed" as Wales not getting London was "getting screwed"

Also to a large extent the only allied country to seriously support mega-Poland had been France.
Less than 20%? That pretty much means the odd part of Pripet marshes.
 
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