WI Novgorod Republic establishes itself as the dominant russian faction?

Having not concluded formal alliance, they sometimes had common enemy, the German Knights. However, Poland cooperated with the Knights in the 13th century (when Novgorod desperately fought them), and the Novgorodian Republic was in precarious peace with the Orders in the early 15th century (during Great War of Polish-Lithuanian coalition against the Teutonic Knights).
However, after destruction of the Livonian Order by the Novgorodians (as tyg proposed above), cooperation (and even formal treaty) between Poland and the Republic could be possible, because they would have to do with the Teutonic Order. Although Orthodox religion of the Novgorodians would be very strong obstacle for signing treaty between them and Catholic Poland against another Catholic (moreover, ecclesiastical) state. But cooperation between both parties could exist even without written documents.
I would say this may be described as potential ally, since even informal alliance suppose some cooperation, at least it is IMHO. Poland fought in alliance with Lithuania and I have in mind the alliance in the first half of 14 century, when Lithuania was pagan, not better known one, so religion wouldn't be big obstacle.
 
I agree that a formal alliance between the two would be unlikely at the time, but the two would likely find shared interests. The liklely bridging point between the two parties would likely be their common conflict with the Teutonic Order...since I know that few Catholic countries were sad to see them fall.

Once the Novgorodians have united Kiev, Novgorod, Muscovy, Estonia, Livonia, and Latvia, do you guys think there could be any more substantial expansion for TL purposes? Into Scandanavia perhaps, or establishing trade colonies?

As you can probably tell, I am not particularly learned in the medieval/renaissance landscape of Eastern Europe, so any further help would be much appreciated. :)

Eventually this will mutate into a timeline, so I'd like you to include any helpful details that you can,

Thanks for the great discussion!
 
I agree that a formal alliance between the two would be unlikely at the time, but the two would likely find shared interests. The liklely bridging point between the two parties would likely be their common conflict with the Teutonic Order...since I know that few Catholic countries were sad to see them fall.

Once the Novgorodians have united Kiev, Novgorod, Muscovy, Estonia, Livonia, and Latvia, do you guys think there could be any more substantial expansion for TL purposes? Into Scandanavia perhaps, or establishing trade colonies?

As you can probably tell, I am not particularly learned in the medieval/renaissance landscape of Eastern Europe, so any further help would be much appreciated. :)

Eventually this will mutate into a timeline, so I'd like you to include any helpful details that you can,

Thanks for the great discussion!

I am not sure how sturdy the Republic was, but I would imagine that some "Caesar" would turn it into a dictatorship.
 
I am not sure how sturdy the Republic was, but I would imagine that some "Caesar" would turn it into a dictatorship.

I'm sure. At some point, every culture accidentally gives itself a dictatorship. :D I just hope that the 'Great Republic' doesn't turn into the 'Glorious Tsardom of Russiawank' ;)
 
You are chatting about Teutonic Order, remote from Moscow as you properly mention, and Lithuania, but you completely neglect the Mongols and Golden Horde!

Because the Horde could hit Moscow at home, and it was Novgorod who was defended by distance, swamps and forests.

Also, the large population and grain surplus was the advantage of the general region of central Russia relative to Novgorod. It was not all Moscow!

There had been other principalities. Like Tver. And a bunch of others.

In OTL, Ivan Kalita and Dmitri Donskoi managed to assure the predominance of Moscow over Tver and the rest. Moscow had been an insignificant principality before Kalita.

Suppose that you hava an ATL where either
a) due to different events, various interventions of Horde etc, Moscow is defeated, and Tver unites Russia, or
b) neither Tver nor Moscow manage to establish predominance, and Novgorod eventually subjugates both

How precisely could it happen, and what next?
 
You are chatting about Teutonic Order, remote from Moscow as you properly mention, and Lithuania, but you completely neglect the Mongols and Golden Horde!

Because the Horde could hit Moscow at home, and it was Novgorod who was defended by distance, swamps and forests.

Also, the large population and grain surplus was the advantage of the general region of central Russia relative to Novgorod. It was not all Moscow!

There had been other principalities. Like Tver. And a bunch of others.

In OTL, Ivan Kalita and Dmitri Donskoi managed to assure the predominance of Moscow over Tver and the rest. Moscow had been an insignificant principality before Kalita.

Suppose that you hava an ATL where either
a) due to different events, various interventions of Horde etc, Moscow is defeated, and Tver unites Russia, or
b) neither Tver nor Moscow manage to establish predominance, and Novgorod eventually subjugates both

How precisely could it happen, and what next?

In my TL, the Republic of Novgorod will be able to utilize manpower and resources from conquests of Moscow, Kiev, Latvia, and estonia to attempt to unite the other princes by force.

I honestly forgot about those Khans o_O
Do you have any info about them? I don't have my history books with me and I'm not very familiar with themoff the top of my head.

I'd imagine that the Tartars and Rus would become conflicted if Novgorod expands, no?

As far as Tvir replaicing Muscovy as the unifier of Russia, I'll write a TL (with flags) for you if you'd like.

Thanks for your input!
 
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