WI:Norway divided between Denmark and Sweden

Zeldar155

Banned
At the Kiel treaty in 1814, Denmark was forced to hand over Norway to Sweden.
But, in OTL the danes initially proposed dividing Norway with Sweden recieving Trondheim and all the northern parts of Norway and Denmark keeping the southern part.

What if, the swedes accepted this proposal? Will Norway be divided forever, how does the history of Scandinavia change because of this?
 
The point of taking Norway was to prevent the age-old enemy of Denmark-Norway from attacking Sweden every time war happened with a third party. It'd also cut the population of said enemy in half while bolstering Sweden.

No point in leaving the Danes both with land-access to Sweden and keeping the most populated parts of Norway. I need to sleep.
 
The point of taking Norway was to prevent the age-old enemy of Denmark-Norway from attacking Sweden every time war happened with a third party. It'd also cut the population of said enemy in half while bolstering Sweden.

No point in leaving the Danes both with land-access to Sweden and keeping the most populated parts of Norway. I need to sleep.

Go to sleep...

Well, what do the Danes have to negotiate with? Why should Sweden accept sharing the cake instead of keeping it?

I don´t think offering Iceland, Faero islands or Greenland would make Sweden any more inclined to allow Denmark to keep the good parts of Norway.

But what about some caribbean islands? Is that unfeasible? But there must be some realpolitik behind it. Maybe if the outcome of the Napoleon wars is slightly different, Denmark in a stronger position or something like that.
 
Danish navy >>>>>> Swedish Navy, so any colony would be useless to Sweden at the slightest spark of conflict.

At that time 1814 even if the Swedish navy were rotten the Danish was still suffering from 1807:
figures
Denmark ships-of-the-line: 1, frigates: 0, minor units: lots
Sweden ships-of-the-line: 4 (operational), frigates: 4 (operational), minor units: lots
 
Also, the Swedish navy had several ships laid up to save cost, they could be fitted if there was a need - at least 10 ships of the line and 12 frigates.
 
1790, Sweden had 21 ships of the line and 13 frigates at Viborg.
1808, Sweden had 11 ships of the line and 5 frigates in the Baltic - and sources indicate the navy was unable to put all ships in the water due to a lack of fund and staff.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
If we see such a split, it will be because the British or Russians dictate it to Sweden and Denmark, not a deal Sweden and Denmark reach on their own.
 
If we see such a split, it will be because the British or Russians dictate it to Sweden and Denmark, not a deal Sweden and Denmark reach on their own.

I agree. But why would they go along with this? It would seem to me that northern Norway is a bit of a booby prize...

I was going to wonder how this would affect Norwegian nationalism, but plenty of people developed a concept of nationhood even though they were ruled by different states.
 
Had a look up here - seems the Swedes had a total of 12 ships of the line and possibly 9-12 frigates. But I remember looking up someplace else (can't find it of course) saying that most of the Swedish ships were in a bad state and unfit for service. Will try finding that info again.
Still 1814 the Danish navy will no match for the Swedes.

Think the Norwegians themselves would be very much against a division of their lands their actions of 1814 say it.

Should the Swedes and great powers agree to the proposal the Norwegians most probably would protest it and work to gain independence from either power! ;)

I see the Norwegians gaining independence no later than the early 20. century and perhaps going for the North Atlantic possessions as well.

Generally I don't see it change much in Scandinavian history except perhaps Denmark not getting to keep the North Atlantic isles.
 
Of course at that time some might feel that Norway had been split. When the independence struggle was starting in Iceland many people argued that Iceland had belonged to Norway and not Denmark, and if Norway wasn´t under the Danish king then Iceland wasn´t either. So, how the icelanders and norwegians thought of their nationality in 1814 is open to question. Obviously Faero-islands belong in this category.;)

I agree that northern Norway without southern Norway is a booby price. But along with that goes Svalbard and Jan Mayen, and some oil later on. Though most of it would go to southern Norway.
 
The idea of Norway as a nation is already established to some degree by 1814, atleast in the educated classes. And except for the northern fish, Trondheim itself and som timber there really isnt anything of value in the north.

The sweds could fill up the northern parts if they want too, maybe by encouraging fins to settle?
 
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