WI: Northern Italians went to the United States instead

As someone who isn't widely aware of the key differences between North and South Italians, what are some key points?

Northern Italy had been the center of industry and finance in Italy since the Renaissance. Southern Italy was rural and underdeveloped, and retained feudal social structures and a clan system.
 
One of the things I know is that Italians were looked down upon for being "not white enough" in the South. They had to go to black schools and live in black neighborhoods under segregation.

Will that extend to Northern Italians, or would they be seen as more "white"?
 
One of the things I know is that Italians were looked down upon for being "not white enough" in the South. They had to go to black schools and live in black neighborhoods under segregation.

Will that extend to Northern Italians, or would they be seen as more "white" ?

Probably the latter. Most full-blooded northern Italians look more Central/North European than Mediterranean, and the same could be said about the local culture, until the mass immigration of southerners to the north in the 20th century that mixed things up (mostly for the worse, since the southern organized crime syndicates were exported to the north as a consequence of those events). Source: I'm a product of said cultural and genetic bastardization myself. :p

If northern Italians emigrated to the US instead of their southern cousins, the Mafia won't be a problem, but some kind of (less powerful and widespread) equivalent organization could still exist, such as the Ligera for example. Cassoeula, minestrone and polenta would take the place of pasta and pizza in New York's ethnic restaurants. The Venetians won't like Prohibition at all, and endless rivers of grappa will flow in the speakeasies. :D
 
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I watched a documentary on the Sicilian experience in America. The Sicilians/Neopolitans were put under a seperate catagory as northern Italians on American immigration forms. They were considered poorer, less educated and generally less desirable than northern Italians.

I don't know how many northern Italians actually moved south. Why would they? There wasn't much in the way of industry or anything to attract them. For the past 150 years, southern Italy has been viewed as a drag on the northern economy and a source of corruption in the nation.
 
What Americans consider Italian cuisine is loosely based on the foods eaten in Southern Italy and Sicily. Nothern Italian cuisine uses far more butter than olive oil, and from what I've seen, no tomato sauce, but rather pesto or cream-based sauces. Fresh pastas made with egg are popular in the north, unlike those from the south where they are dry. Rice and risotto is also popular, unlike in the south. White wine is also more popular in northern Italy. Flavours in the south tend to be strong with anchovies, garlic, olives, capers, chilli peppers, fennel, dried/roasted tomatoes and oregano whereas in the north sage and chervil are more common.

One of the interesting things about Italian emigration was that it was a phenomenon that touched all regions of Italy. Before 1900 though, Northern Italy accounted for most of the emigration, particularly Piedmont, Vento and Friuli/Venezia-Giulia. After 1900, Sicily and Calabria became the largest regions of emigration. Another thing to note was that Northern Italians were also far more literate, below are the literacy rates of selected regions in 1901.

Piedmont 82%
Lombardy 78%
Liguria 73%
Lazio 66%
Vento & Friuli 65%
Emilia-Romagna 64%
Tuscany 52%
Umbria 40%
Marche 37%
Campania 35%
Sardinia 32%
Abruzzo-Molise 30%
Puglia 30%
Sicily 29%
Basilicata 25%
Calabria 21%

Emigration from the North tended to focus initially on seasonal migration to industrial regions of neighbouring countries, particularly France, Switzerland, and to a lesser extent, Germany, Belgium, Austria and the United Kingdom. However, after 1880, large numbers of Italians from the north emigrated to South America, particularly from Veneto and Piedmont to Brazil and Argentina.

Italian Emigration 1876-1926
Americas 8,980,000
Europe 7,559,000
Africa 301,000
Oceania 42,000
Asia 13,000

Emigration 1876-1900 5,257,911
North & Central 61%
South & Sardinia 29%

Emigration 1901-1915 8,769,749
North & Central 66%
South & Sardinia 44%

After 1900, the South began to account for a larger portion of emigrants, jumping from a mere 12.9% in 1876-1880 to 46.7% in 1901-1910.

Below are the numbers of Italian emigrants in absolute numbers between 1876 and 1976. Keep in mind that there was a large number of temporary migrants, so the vast majority of those going to European countries eventually returned and around half going to the Americas would do so as well.

1876-1976
USA 5,691,404
France 4,117,394
Switzerland 3,989,813
Argentina 2,969,402
Germany 2,452,587
Brazil 1,456,914
Canada 650,358
Belgium 535,031
Australia 428,289
Venezuela 285,014
UK 263,598
Other 1,188,135

Below are the breakdowns of origin of Italians in certain countries. In Brazil, immigration from Italy declined rapidly after 1900, with much smaller numbers after that period, whereas in Argentina it remained significant until the 1950s.

Argentina
North & Central 54%
South & Sardinia 46%

Brazil
67% North & Central
33% South & Sardinia

USA
85% South & Sardinia
15% North & Central


Piedmont 1901-1913 752,000
France 31%
Switzerland 21%
Argentina 20%
USA 16%
Germany & Austria 4%
Brazil 2%


Sicily 1876-1925 1,659,000
USA 77%
Argentina 16%
Brazil 3%
Other America 3%
Africa 1%

After World War II, Italians began to emigrate in large numbers again, with 6.5 million emigrating between 1946-1976. Over two-thirds of these were from Southern Italy, and over 70% chose European destinations, with Switzerland, France and West Germany being the primary receiving countries. Of the overseas destinations, South America, particularly Argentina and Venezuela dominated the 1950s, followed by Canada, the U.S. and Australia. Venezuela, Canada and Australia are noteworthy because before World War II they had very small Italian communities, all three countries had Italian communities with over 80% being from Southern Italy and Sicily. Venezuela being primarily Sicilian and Australia having a very large number of people from Calabria.
 
Probably the latter. Most full-blooded northern Italians look more Central/North European than Mediterranean, and the same could be said about the local culture, until the mass immigration of southerners to the north in the 20th century that mixed things up (mostly for the worse, since the southern organized crime syndicates were exported to the north as a consequence of those events). Source: I'm a product of said cultural and genetic bastardization myself. :p

If northern Italians emigrated to the US instead of their southern cousins, the Mafia won't be a problem, but some kind of (less powerful and widespread) equivalent organization could still exist, such as the Ligera for example. Cassoeula, minestrone and polenta would take the place of pasta and pizza in New York's ethnic restaurants. The Venetians won't like Prohibition at all, and endless rivers of grappa will flow in the speakeasies. :D

Red haired /bearded Garibaldi cetainly wouldn´t face discrimination. He was extremly popular in North America as well. Maybe he becomes a general for the Union and forms an Italian volunteer corps. Later on these Italians settle in the USA. Garibaldi then invites Italian from all over Italy to the States. Maybe we could have Italian Unification avoided by a few years, by butterflying Carvour and the Sardinian Kings ambitions somehow. Also Sicilian sub identety becomes even stronger (there had been low level insurgency). Then we could have a longer and more devasting decade long war between Sardinia Piemont, France and Austria over Northern Italy. Venice is sacked by Austrians, and industrial centers of Nortern Italy loose economic strenght . Maybe the Austrians win Solferino and are stronger in general. Many Northern Italians loose hope for independent Kingdom and emmigrate.
 
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I recall reading that most Italians actually returned home from America, men making up the vast majority of Italian emigrants (as opposed to Irish during the famine that came over in roughly equal quantities).

I suspect the number going to European countries at this time, no doubt short term, even seasonal, jobs, probably returned home 90 to 95% of the time. As it, there were no doubt large numbers that stayed in those countries as Italian names remain quite common to this day.
 
Red haired /bearded Garibaldi cetainly wouldn´t face discrimination. He was extremly popular in North America as well. Maybe he becomes a general for the Union and forms an Italian volunteer corps. Later on these Italians sttle in the USA. Garibaldi then invites Italian from all over Italy to the States. Maybe we could have Italian Unification avoided by a few years, by butterflying Carvour and the Sardinian Kings ambitions somehow. Also Sicilian sub identety becomes even stronger (there had been low level insurgency). Then we could have a longer and more devasting decade long war between Sardinia Piemont, France and Austria over Northern Italy. Venice is sacked by Austrians, and industrial centers of Nortern Italy loose economic strenght . Maybe the Austrians win Solferino and are stronger in general. Many Northern Italians loose hope for independent Kingdom and emmigrate.

Without Italian Unification, would emigration increase or decrease?

Note that these pre-unification Kings and Dukes often did not allow their subjects freedom of movement.
 
As Viriato was saying, many northern Italians migrated to South America, and in fact, made quite a few contributions to agriculture in southern Brazil and Argentina. For example, they started many farms in the southern Brazilian states of Parana, Santa Catarina, and Rio Grande do Sul (with some vineyards in the latter state), and in the Argentine provinces of Santa Fe and Entre Rios, plus a very good number of the many vineyards for which Mendoza province (on the border with Chile) is quite famous. Of course, many other northern Italians going to South America made their way to cities such as Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires. The northern Italians went to South America first, to be joined later by the southern Italians. So I'm sure that if large numbers of northern Italians had migrated to the United States, they would have made their big mark on American agriculture, as well as American cities.
 
Without Italian Unification, would emigration increase or decrease?

Note that these pre-unification Kings and Dukes often did not allow their subjects freedom of movement.

Yes, the Papal States were pretty repressive, too. Maybe Trentino-Alto Adige , which was Austrian until WW1 could be source for immigrants to the US. Maybe ethnic Italians, who dont want to live ander Austrian rule, which regard them as "Welsh" ? Well, I dont know the demgarphics of ethnic Italinas in that area at that specific time.
 
Yes, the Papal States were pretty repressive, too. Maybe Trentino-Alto Adige , which was Austrian until WW1 could be source for immigrants to the US. Maybe ethnic Italians, who dont want to live ander Austrian rule, which regard them as "Welsh" ? Well, I dont know the demgarphics of ethnic Italinas in that area at that specific time.

There were too few Italians in the Habsburg monarchy after 1866 when Veneto was lost. By 1910 there were 768,000 Italian and Ladin speakers in Austria-Hungary, with 377,000 in Trent/Trentino where they were the majority, but a mere 7,000 in Sudtirol/Alto-Adige. In the Austria-Littoral there were another 357,000 and in Dalmatia 18,000. In Hungary, the small Italian community was located around Fiume.

Even if they had all emigrated to America en masse, there'd still be too few of them. As things were there were 18,000 Italians who emigrated from Austria-Hungary to the United States between 1899-1910. However, they had much higher levels of literacy and their living standards were much higher than those in Southern Italy.
 
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