WI Northern Ireland smaller?

The boundary commission sent to draw the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland represented both sides... except that some of the Irish members decided to put a lot of pro-independence regions into Northern Ireland to give it a substantial anti-British minority which would continue agitating and hopefully reunify the whole island. Of course, their plan half-worked: violence continued, but Northern Ireland is still British.

So what if they didn't? I know almost everyone in the Third Dail supported all-Ireland union, but suppose they appointed people to the Boundary Commission who recognized it was almost impossible and decided to settle for keeping the British portion as small as possible? Would that forestall the Troubles in Northern Ireland, and what effects would it have on the UK and Ireland?
 
The problem with that for Irish Nationalists is that if you cut out areas like Derry, Newry, South Armagh and parts of Tyrone and Fermanagh, the rump NI will be so overwhelmingly Unionist that it will be British forever. This means the effective death of the dream of an independent 32 county Ireland, whatever leaders agreed to it would be denounced as traitors and probably ousted from power.
 
The problem with that for Irish Nationalists is that if you cut out areas like Derry, Newry, South Armagh and parts of Tyrone and Fermanagh, the rump NI will be so overwhelmingly Unionist that it will be British forever. This means the effective death of the dream of an independent 32 county Ireland, whatever leaders agreed to it would be denounced as traitors and probably ousted from power.

As they should be. Like that Free Stater Collins. There we go, rhetoric, always works.
 
The boundary commission sent to draw the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland represented both sides... except that some of the Irish members decided to put a lot of pro-independence regions into Northern Ireland to give it a substantial anti-British minority
Learn your history. It was Unionists who insisted on continuing to occupy large areas with an irish majority (if a substantial unionist minority).
 
Everybody involved was Irish. Some of the Irish people did not wish to be part of the Free State. Nyerrr. :mad:

I think he meant Irish Catholic, who were majority in favor of joining the Free State. Of course they were the minority since the majority wanted to remain in the UK. Which of course left a sizable minority that was less than thrilled. The partition was a difficult subject and the British weren't going to let the 6 topics with the biggest Protestant populations go, since they mostly wanted to stay.
 

Falkenburg

Monthly Donor
I'm surprised and a little saddened to see the motivations and positions of the Free State delegates to the Boundary Commission so gratuitously misrepresented.

I would be genuinely intrigued to know on what basis such an assessment had been made. :confused:

The Border was established by the Westminster Parliament during the Anglo-Irish War.
As such it took account of the opinions and priorities of the (Northern) Unionist Politicians.

Its' purpose was to create a sustainable, defensible, Northern State in the face of Insurrection elsewhere on the Island.

The Commission was supposed to address such anomalous situations as 'Nationalist' majority areas being incorporated in the Northern State and 'Unionist' majority areas being apportioned to the South.

The Northern State refused to co-operate with the Commission, fearing territorial losses (and their consequences) were plebiscites to be held to determine the will of the people in Border areas.

The Free State deliberately misconstrued the purpose of the Commission (IMO), seeing it as a way of determining which parts of NI should be transferred to Free State administration.

Oh what's the point. :eek::rolleyes:
There's a genuinely interesting POD to be found here but if it is to be developed with such willful disregard for the truth as to the motivations and policies of those involved it's probably best left to die.

Shame. :(

Falkenburg
 
I think he meant Irish Catholic,

I think so, and this is what pisses me off. I'm of Ulster Presbyterian descent myself, and I get really annoyed when people assume, based on all that sectarian nonsense, that Ulster Protestants are disqualified from being 'Irish' just because their idea of their Irishness is a different one.
 
Learn your history. It was Unionists who insisted on continuing to occupy large areas with an irish majority (if a substantial unionist minority).
Well, yes. The land had originally been part of Northern Ireland (while Southern Ireland was also part of the UK), but I think it was fairly reasonable for the Free State to claim regions with a pro-independence majority.

I'm surprised and a little saddened to see the motivations and positions of the Free State delegates to the Boundary Commission so gratuitously misrepresented.

I would be genuinely intrigued to know on what basis such an assessment had been made. :confused:
I'm sorry. I don't remember where I came to that conclusion. I read a fair amount online a couple years ago about the Irish independence struggle, but I can't remember who assigned the commission those motives. Some further web browsing this afternoon led me to a lot more information, but no more speculations as to the Commission's motives. Of course, given that it had one member from Britain, one from Northern Ireland, and only one from the Free State, someone might well conclude no further explanation is needed.

So how much effect do you think a smaller NI would have?
 
Top