WI: North Carolina votes against Secession

WI: NC votes against secceding from the USA? How would this affect the civil war? would it hinder/encourage other states to seceede?

How long could NC resist against a confederate invasion? How much earlier would the civil war end?
 
IIRC Virginia only seceeded after the Union began talking about sending a Federal army through it. If North Carolina remains loyal, it's a longer trip, through two states, to Confederate territory. Union intervention plans might focus on naval efforts and Army movements further west. Might keep both states for the Union (and no West Virginia later).

I don't think the Confederates would invade NC, but if they did it would backfire for them, with the Union Army welcomed!

Virginia's secession must have been a big boost for the South-very prestigious. A Confederacy without it might have a lot less legitimacy.

Sounds like a winning situation. Anybody know if it was at all likely?
 

FDW

Banned
NC staying would probably hurt support for succession, especially in the state that really counted. (Virginia)
 
I think that Tennessee is the best case for succession to fail...other than Kentucky and Missouri where it did fail...
 
More Secession

I think that Tennessee is the best case for succession to fail...other than Kentucky and Missouri where it did fail...
How about sucession happens in Missouri? Or Kentuchey? The war in the west is different? Theres an invasion of Ohio?
 
I think that Tennessee is the best case for succession to fail...other than Kentucky and Missouri where it did fail...

Wasn't Tennessee's secession basically a coup by the pro-Southern Governor after it failed the vote?
 
Hmmm. With an outright coup, revolts amongst whites might have spread throughout the South. The excuse of states rights would be completely shot, while locals finally try to remove their overlords. The Carolinas' mostly seemed to be about breeding slaves anyways, due to cotton and other crops completely destroying the soil's fertility.
 
Wasn't Tennessee's secession basically a coup by the pro-Southern Governor after it failed the vote?
Not really; it was more like the governor and legislature going ahead with secession once the civil war started, even though a pre-war referendum voted down secession. It’s a bit more defensible, since a lot changed between the referendum in February and secession in April.

Missouri is probably a lot closer to an actual outright coup, since it involved federal troops basically kicking out the state government when it looked like they might not be pro-Union enough.
 
Hmmm. With an outright coup, revolts amongst whites might have spread throughout the South. The excuse of states rights would be completely shot, while locals finally try to remove their overlords. The Carolinas' mostly seemed to be about breeding slaves anyways, due to cotton and other crops completely destroying the soil's fertility.

It wasn't exactly democratic IOTL.....
 
It obviously convinces the Union to change strategy given that eastern Tennessee was heavily pro-Union. Simply hold position in Virginia and take all of Tennessee as soon as possible, thereby hooking up with North Carolina and leave Virginia isolated.
 
If either Tennessee or North Carolina had not seceded (notice I'm refraining from the saying "voted against" since only Texas really had a popular vote to determine whether the state would or would not secede) then it would have reinforced the rather unrealistic view held by Lincoln and other Republicans that the majority of Southerners did not support secession and would somehow work to bring their states back into the Union before a major conflict would arise.

South Carolina, though was dead set on secession by late November of 1860 so the Bombardment of Fort Sumter would have occurred nonetheless. Lincoln may have delayed somewhat his call for 75,000 volunteers under the belief that the secession movements lacked wide spread popular support. But eventually he would be forced to act, because although secession came about due directly to the sectional dispute over slavery, Lincoln's immediate aim was to suppress the Rebellion and preserve the Union. More than likely (assuming as per the OP that it is NC that refuses to secede) Lincoln will offer to send federal troops to North Carolina in order to maintain order and keep the state in the Union. The Gov. of NC will refuse and instead declare state neutrality as Kentucky did and Missouri tried to do.

A neutral NC helps the Union while really hurting the Confederacy. Virginia is cut off and the Confederate capital will stay in Montgomery. Even more important for the Confederacy, North Carolina is an important rail link between the Deep South and the Upper South (as is Tennessee). A mini-Civil War will occur in NC between pro-secessionists unwilling to accept neutrality and pro-Unionist who loath the idea of secession. More than likely Lincoln will be smart enough not to send federal forces but the bifurcated Confederacy will not have the luxery of allowing NC to remain aloof. The Gov. of SC will send troops to aide the pro-secessionist faction, and Lincoln will respond by sending troops to assist the pro-Unionists.

So essentially it will be Kentucky and Missouri rolled into one lovely ball of confused fighting, back-stabbing politics and brutal guerrilla warfare. Of course the Confederate states will look like a bunch of even bigger hypocrites than they already do. At least if its Tennessee that refuses to secede than they can form a local alliance with Kentucky which may actually save their states from being battlegrounds.

Benjamin
 
It partly depends on why the vote in North Carolina goes the other way. Lincoln's response to Sumter had a great deal of influence on the state reactions. He had to be careful. On the one hand, South Carolina had fired on their fellow Americans and killed some. That put the North and west reasonably solidly in favor of ending this whole secession nonsense. On the other hand, the more aggressively Lincoln goes after seceded states, the more he forces border states to make a choice, and the likes of Virginia and North Carolina seceding turned the Confederacy from obviously non-viable long-term to almost viable.
 
It partly depends on why the vote in North Carolina goes the other way. Lincoln's response to Sumter had a great deal of influence on the state reactions. He had to be careful. On the one hand, South Carolina had fired on their fellow Americans and killed some. That put the North and west reasonably solidly in favor of ending this whole secession nonsense. On the other hand, the more aggressively Lincoln goes after seceded states, the more he forces border states to make a choice, and the likes of Virginia and North Carolina seceding turned the Confederacy from obviously non-viable long-term to almost viable.
So...
PoD might possibly be a signal from Lincoln that he'll accept neutrality? Don't know if that would be possible, but it would be interesting.

It would make the war VERY interesting. OT1H, the South no longer has the industry, naval yards or manpower of Virginia, which means there army and navy will be much weaker. OTOH, if you have a 'neutral' block of VA, NC, TN, KY and MO, it's going to be REALLY hard for the Union to effectively attack. They would have to convince KY and MO to agree to Union use of the Mississippi (it's not IN those states, sort of), and attack down river - or e.g. invade Florida and try to move north. Bleah!

Sort of like two boxers tethered at arms length apart.
 
Here's another scary fact General Lee was offered to be commander of Union forces and he would have agreed but because Virginia seceded Lee supported Virginia but now with No Virginian cessation Expect the confedaracy to face off Agaisnt General Lee... Oh the irony
 
Here's another scary fact General Lee was offered to be commander of Union forces and he would have agreed but because Virginia seceded Lee supported Virginia but now with No Virginian cessation Expect the confedaracy to face off Agaisnt General Lee... Oh the irony

He makes a headlong attack into Beauregard's entrenched positions and leads the Union army into a Fredericksburg-style clusterfuck and is cashiered. Oh, the irony.
 
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