WI: No Watchmen/ Dark Knight returns

Yeah, with my thread "Popular Music without Glee", I think out of my element. I don't know that much about popular music trends, or what influences them. I also think I might have misinterpreted Todd's statement about Glee being the millineal MTV. So, I might have overestimated Glee's influence on the charts. People have noted on the thread that it was a bad idea, but I think it was worth a shot. However, this one will go more to what I know.
Alan Moore's Watchmen and Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight returns" are considered masterpieces in the comic world. Both were dark, complex, morally ambiguous, full of themes and thematic elements. There is no denying that these two books helped shaped comics. In particular, it helped bring the slew of ostensibly morally complex superhero comics, in an era fans call "The Dark Age of Comics" So, obviously know where I'm going with this.
What if these two books never existed? Would there be any replacements? Would the dark age of comics still come? For the latter, would Batman still be considered campy and comical, like in the Adam West series. And finally, how would the careers of Alan Moore and Frank Miller go without their magnum opus?
 
In the late 80s, DC turning to Brittan to aid its ailing sales. Out of this project came Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman and Grant Morrison (easily the most important comic creators of the past 30 years).

It's pretty easy to imagine the entire "British invasion" going awry. Comic book history is full of short lived gimmicks and failed ambitions. Most of the British authors had ridiculously inflated credentials. DC was doing fairly poorly in the 80s and the Britwave helped turn things around.

DKR and Alan Moore make up a good chunk of what attracted people to DC at that time. Their only other successful projects during the 80s were John Byrne's reboot of Superman and Marv Wolfman's Teen Titans. Without DKR and Alan Moore, we can expect to see more young legacy heroes in an attempt to capitalize on the success of X-men and TT.

In the 80s DC was offered a merger deal by Marvel and turned it down. Without their highly successful books, they might have accepted the deal.
 
\For the latter, would Batman still be considered campy and comical, like in the Adam West series.

That wasn't the reality of Batman at that time, even without TDKR. O'Neil and Adams had already moved Batman well away from his campy 60's image during the early 70's. They, for example, are the ones who invented Ra's al Ghul and revitalized The Joker. They are the ones who turn Batman into a vegence-driven obsessive compulsive figure. TKDR just built on that work more than a decade later (almost two).

Torqumada
 

Robert

Banned
Frank Miller is a talented writer and would concentrate on Sin City noir style graphic novels.

Alan Moore would remain in England and work on trash like 1984 magazine and ultimately be forgotten.

Without Moore's cynical and sadistic work, superheroes would remain heroes and not psychotics in costume.

The Batman movies of the 1980s would be a lot more fun and popular, along the lines of Superman.

More superheroes movies would be produced. Superheroes would return to television.
 
That wasn't the reality of Batman at that time, even without TDKR. O'Neil and Adams had already moved Batman well away from his campy 60's image during the early 70's. They, for example, are the ones who invented Ra's al Ghul and revitalized The Joker. They are the ones who turn Batman into a vegence-driven obsessive compulsive figure. TKDR just built on that work more than a decade later (almost two).

Torqumada
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Thank you for that information regarding that. However, I should have clarified the question with "in the popular consciousness", because the campy 60's Batman was what the general public thought of when they thought Batman at the time. TDKR helped re-darken the character in the eyes of the public. I should have elaborated on that. Sorry.
 
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Thank you for that information regarding that. However, I should have clarified the question with "in the popular consciousness", because the campy 60's Batman was what the general public thought of when they thought Batman at the time. TDKR helped re-darken the character in the eyes of the public. I should have elaborated on that. Sorry.

Meh. For the comic book reading public they'd already moved to the darker view on Batman. For the general public I'd say it was the Nolan films which did the trick.

Now, whether those would have been greenlighted without DKR...
 
Meh. For the comic book reading public they'd already moved to the darker view on Batman. For the general public I'd say it was the Nolan films which did the trick.

The Burton films did that trick, and the reaction amongst the general public at the time was "ZOMG, dark!" What I think the Nolan films did was almost completely eject the surrealism (which had always been part of Batman, even in the earliest comics) and ground Batman in something very close to reality.

Now, whether those would have been greenlighted without DKR...

I tend to think so. What became the first Burton film had been in development since about 1980, with the goal being to go back to the dark (but still surrealistic) nature of the original Batman comics; and I don't think DKR played any part in its journey out of development hell.
 
These were very talented guys. So Miller doesn't do Dark Knight; say he does his DD turn, which covers much the same ground, instead.

Bear in mind, too, the intention of Watchmen was to reboot the Charlton characters; who says Alan doesn't do just that, with less "darkness"? Or, to crib Morrison, more weirdness? DP was impenetrable to anybody I know:eek::rolleyes:...but it was superb, for all that.
 
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