WI No Washington Naval Treaty

Nations make demands in treaty negotiations all the time. Bear with me,
please. The Japanese wouldn't have to turn it over. Remember what I said
earlier? After World War II, Stalin demanded that the Mikasa, which by then
was in sorry state, be scrapped. What's to stop the Whites from doing the
same thing? The Mikasa could be scrapped in Japan. As I said before, nations make demands in treaty negotiations all the time. Whether they're
reasonable or unreasonable, is for the parties themselves, to decide. The
Amagi, one of the ships in The Destroyermen series, wasn't scrapped in a
third country OTL, David. It was scrapped in Japan. I'm sure the Japanese,
after World War I, had the facilities to scrap her.

I think anyone mentioning the Destroyermen series should have the books driven into their forehead. As far as I am concerned one of the fastest ways to undercut your arguement is to mention them. The fastest way is to mention Harrison's Stars and Stripes.

Whats to stop the Whites? They aren't in any position to make any demands of such nature and it would be foolish for them to. The Japanese have eight former Russian warships still in their fleet in 1922 that they could give to the Russians if they wanted to.
 

Blair152

Banned
I think anyone mentioning the Destroyermen series should have the books driven into their forehead. As far as I am concerned one of the fastest ways to undercut your arguement is to mention them. The fastest way is to mention Harrison's Stars and Stripes.

Whats to stop the Whites? They aren't in any position to make any demands of such nature and it would be foolish for them to. The Japanese have eight former Russian warships still in their fleet in 1922 that they could give to the Russians if they wanted to.
Have you ever thought that this the way I want it? I'm writing an alternate
history series about American battleships in the Asiatic Fleet. Speaking of the Japanese, do you know why they only had eight Russian battleships in
their fleet in 1922? They returned most of them to Russia in 1915. So the Russians go to Washington with a hidden agenda? Big deal. What else is new?
 

Blair152

Banned
I'm not sure if you've listened to a single comment made here so far, but please listen to this.

This is verging on the Absurd. Nations make demands in treaty negotiations that make sense. Asking for an obsolete battleship to be scraped does not. Yeah, it was the flagship at Tsushima, but so what? France never asked Britain to destroy HMS Victory, and the British never asked for USS Constitution to be razed.

The fact is, a surviving White Russian government is going to be weak, broke, and utterly incapable of making demands of the nations which are propping it up. Any remaining political capital that the government has in foreign affairs is going to be spent trying to modernize, not pissing off the Japanese with demands for symbolic submission statements.

The Japanese scrap their own ships. I'm not sure why I'm even outlining this for you, or why you did so. The Japanese scrap their own ships when they choose to. It's not a terribly difficult process in that day and age, especially when you build the bloody ships in the first place. But the key thing is that they scrap them when they choose to. Not when the russians ask. even if they ask very nicely.

The fact is, a (white) russian government ITTL will be very lucky to get a seat at ATL-Washington. They are in no condition to make any demands, especially ones which seem intended to provoke, of the Japanese.

And, as people have pointed out to you before, Destroyermen is not a valid source for, well, anything.
I'm not going by the Destroyermen series alone, which is well-researched.
I have The Simon and Schuster Encyclopedia of World War II. The Amagi
was scrapped as a result of the 1923 Tokyo earthquake. That's a fact. It's
also mentioned in wikipedia. Go to www.en.wikipedia.org/Japanesebattlecruiser Amagi for more details.
 
Have you ever thought that this the way I want it? I'm writing an alternate
history series about American battleships in the Asiatic Fleet. Speaking of the Japanese, do you know why they only had eight Russian battleships in
their fleet in 1922? They returned most of them to Russia in 1915. So the Russians go to Washington with a hidden agenda? Big deal. What else is new?

I know that Blair152. I think it would be safe to say that I know a great deal more of naval history, particularly the Dreadnought Era, than you do and I've got a fair extensive naval history library at my finger tips.

Doesn't matter. The Russians may as well be wishing for the moon since they aren't going to get anything.
 

Blair152

Banned
I know that Blair152. I think it would be safe to say that I know a great deal more of naval history, particularly the Dreadnought Era, than you do and I've got a fair extensive naval history library at my finger tips.

Doesn't matter. The Russians may as well be wishing for the moon since they aren't going to get anything.
Point taken, David. I read a lot. Not as much as I want to. I'm trying to get
something done. In my book, I have the South Carolina and other early American dreadnoughts in the Asiatic Fleet, which by 1941, only had destroyers. Something about these early battleships fascinates me. That's
why I want to use them.
 
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