WI No USS Monitor?

Delta Force

Banned
No, as a threat, the Merrimac could deter a lot of traffic. The civilian populace didn't know about her stability and draft issues.

Stay away from Norfolk, which was still Confederate occupied at this time. But the currents in the Chesapeake are very nasty. The Merrimac would risk running aground. If that happened, even temporarily, a Union wooden warship could close in with a spar torpedo, and if they're lucky, blow the whole stern end of the ship off.

Virginia wasn't very maneuverable, and it also had the issue of having a rather deep draught relative to the depth of the Chesapeake Bay. During the Battle of Hampton Roads, the United States Navy ships stayed close to Fort Monroe and/or withdrew to shallower waters that Virginia couldn't enter.

Also, I think Virginia ended up having its ram stuck in the side of the first ship it rammed and it was feared both ships would sink, but then the ram broke off and Virginia was able to escape. If Virginia had tried to ram another ship it might have been severely damaged or even sunk because of the missing ram and damage to the bow from the first attack.

I think one of the issues with the planking was the use of unseasoned green wood. That's an error many navies were prone to in the age of sail when fleets had to be improvised in a hurry. The entire design does strike me as a bit unsound, but naval construction is not exactly my primary area of interest, so I have to defer to the opinions of others more knowledgeable about the subject.

I've heard the use of green wood mentioned as a potential reason for the poor relative performance of French ships compared to British ones during the Napoleonic Wars. I think the French used a different construction method too.
 
Anyone here familiar with the USS Dunderberg? Now there is a ship not many people talk about.

There is a very good article about it's design and construction in the journal Warship International. I believe it is pointed out that there is practically no information in English about her career in the French name.

What is interesting is that Dunderberg's original design called for two turrets atop the casement so that, to a degree, it was nearly a prototype battleship.

There is also the Stevens Battery that was taking years to build.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Which of course, explains why St. Lawrence, Minnestoa, and Roanoke

The Hampton Roads are not deep water. The idea that the USN which had been using this haven since the creation of the USA would not realise this simple fact is absurd. The plan was as I explained.

I am beginning to suspect from the similarity of your writing style and the lack of coherence to many of your arguments that you are P Tsouras the writer of Britainnia's Fist. Would you care to comment?


Which of course, explains why St. Lawrence, Minnesota, and Roanoke all ran aground, Congress was intentionally grounded, and Virginia's manuevers were constrained by the bar. Littoral warfare is a bitch, as anyone who has practiced it knows...

The bit about Goldsborough's plan to take Virginia under fire from multiple bearings is in Davis and Musicant, IIRC, in both cases drawing on Goldsborough's reports in the OR.

And I'm not Lt. Col. Tsouras; I wore a different shade of green...

Best,
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Here's a prototype for you:

There is a very good article about it's design and construction in the journal Warship International. I believe it is pointed out that there is practically no information in English about her career in the French name.

What is interesting is that Dunderberg's original design called for two turrets atop the casement so that, to a degree, it was nearly a prototype battleship.

There is also the Stevens Battery that was taking years to build.


Here's a prototype for you:

h59548.jpg
 
There is a very good article about it's design and construction in the journal Warship International. I believe it is pointed out that there is practically no information in English about her career in the French name.

What is interesting is that Dunderberg's original design called for two turrets atop the casement so that, to a degree, it was nearly a prototype battleship.

There is also the Stevens Battery that was taking years to build.

Here's a prototype for you:

h59548.jpg
Thanks for that information, gentlemen. It is greatly appreciated.
 

Driftless

Donor
With all of the naval innovation going on in the ACW, did anyone perform practical experiments with armor piercing ammunition?

It seems most of the damage done to ironclads was by floating mines, spar torpedos (a mine attached to a spar), bad weather, and ramming. Most of the gun battles seem to have resulted in a lot of battering, with mostly superficial damage.
 
I've heard the use of green wood mentioned as a potential reason for the poor relative performance of French ships compared to British ones during the Napoleonic Wars. I think the French used a different construction method too.

Yes, because they worked more from mathematical theory and less from conservative pragmatism than the British did, they generally built their ships more lightly than the British ones and actually intended them to flex because their theoreticians said that that would make the ships faster.
They were generally faster than British-built ships of comparable sizes... when fresh out of the yards, and operating under perfect conditions. Under anything worse than perfect conditions, however, they had to slow down so as not to be shaken apart, and they wore out more quickly than British-built ships did... Which, bearing in mind that France had less dockyard capacity than Britain in the first place, meant that during the course of any war their fleet would have been likely to weaken relative to the RN even without the effects of combat.
 

Driftless

Donor
When you think of the relatively short time between the first appearance of the Monitor and subsequent turreted ships; it's not surprising that some of the experimentation fell short of expectation. Most of your really competent naval engineers had limited experience building iron ships, let alone armored ships. Add in the bonus of incorporating heavy guns with a heavy rotating turret, figuring in force of recoil from any direction.

Perhaps the greater surprise is the successes they did have.
 
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