WI: No Twin Disaster of Gottorp?

In January 1433, Agnes of Baden, wife of the Count of Holstein-Schauenburg, tŕipped and fell on the stairs which caused her to go into labour early. She gave birth to very healthy twins, Heinrich and Katharina.

However, scandal ensued since, although she and Count Gerhard had been marriedin June 1432, the match had only been consummated in October, and the birth of these twins was deemed far too early for them to be legitimate (they were born at 7mos). However, Gerhard, before the whole court swore that he had slept with his wife BEFORE their wedding and found her a virgin. The bishop of Lubeck as well as various court doctors and midwives swore to this statement and all seemed well.

Until Gerhard died a few months later of an infected lung. Then, his brother, Count Adolf, went on a smear campaign, claimed his little niece and nephew were illegitimate and usurped the throne of Holstein. Agnes fled back to Baden and married a nobody cavalier (against her brother's wishes, since he hoped to salvage the Holstein alliance by marrying her to Adolf, or to wed her to the duke of Oels), and spent the rest of her life imprisoned for it. Katharina died young at the convent she was sent to, while Heinrich died at under a year of age in an incident involving the court jester.

The county of Holstein passed to the descendants of King Christian I of Denmark as a result.

So, what if Agnes HADN'T tripped (ergo doesn't go into early labour) or better still, Gerhard accepts them as his legitimate (since him swearing up and down that he had "spanked" his wife before their wedding probably just muddied the waters, since then the twins would've been conceived in June 1432, which meant they'd still be premature. (If people can kinda doubt kids being born 7 mos premature, then surely arguing for a prem birth at 8mos is just as unbelievable?)

Either way, Adolf was the most powerful noble in Denmark under Erik of Pomerania and Christoph III. Which means that a surviving line could've been movers and shakers (at least for a while) in Danish-Imperial affairs.

Thoughts?
 
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So revisiting this idea. The lack of a legitimate male heir to Holstein (from either Gerhard or Adolf (who married twice and had nothing to show for it), meant that it passed to their second sister, Hedwig (their older sister, Ingeborg was abbess at Wadstena). Hedwig had previously been married to Prince Baltasar, but he had died in 1421 without children. She then remarried to Dietrich, Count of Oldenburg and became the mother of Christian I (her kids inherited the Holstein lands through her - although there was still a senior line of Holstein-Schauenburg which died out in the mid-17th century.

Ergo, my understanding of it is that this lucky little marriage was what allowed the Oldenburg dynasty to climb into Denmark's driver's seat with Christian I.

So, provided little Heinz of Holstein-Rendsburg lives past his 1433 demise (or his dad's lung DOESN'T get infected and so doesn't die), this can seriously upset Danish history - hopefully we can NOT get a more repetitive royal name (its like the Bourbons with Louis or the Nassaus-Oranges with Willem), where they always seem to alternate between Christian and Frederik (although given that this family flipflopped between Adolf, Gerhard and Otto I don't hold out much hope).

For instance, the Holstein-Schauenburgs remained Catholic (if in name only) and produced one of the archbishops of Cologne during the Reformation. Another Catholic prince of their house was forced to resign his ecclesiastical posts in favour of the Lutheran Heinrich Julius of Brunswick.
 
Also, and probably more importantly, if Christian I doesn't have the power base he inherited from his maternal families, that makes it unlikely IMO that the Oldenburgs succeed Christoph III, doesn't it? Which does beg the question of who comes after him? Henrik of Holstein? He descends through both his parents from King Abel and another King of Denmark, plus he has ties to the former Swedish reigning house (albeit I'm not sure if he would've had any right/claims to the Swedish throne).

EDIT: Hoping @Milites @Zulfurium @Behemoth @Jürgen or any other posters who know about Danish history will drop by.
 
I really wish I could give you an answer, but this isn't a period I have really researched all that much. It is an interesting series of questions though.
 
Wasn't Christian the most direct of the Holsten line in line for Denmark? His greatgrandfather Henry II of Holsten had a brother Nicolas but his line leads through several daughter lines to John V of Saxe Lauenburg.
Otherwise we're going through the Princes of Werle and probably Ulrich II Duke of Mecklenburg-Stargard husband of the eldest Gustrow daughter.
Both these options seem weaker than the Oldenburgs Holsten line.
 
Maybe this means that without Danish power on hand to subdue it, the Dithmarschen Peasant Republic stays around for longer than it did IOTL?
 
Ergo, my understanding of it is that this lucky little marriage was what allowed the Oldenburg dynasty to climb into Denmark's driver's seat with Christian I.

Christian I's election was made possible on account of two things: 1) his relation to king Erik V on his mother's side and 2) the fact that he was from a minor German princely family. The second fact was of much importance, since it meant he did not possess the political muscle to strong-arm the electoral college in the council of the realm. By choosing candidates who were "lesser" (and foreign) nobles, the aristocracy could expand and maintain its influence vis-a-vis the crown.

Maybe this means that without Danish power on hand to subdue it, the Dithmarschen Peasant Republic stays around for longer than it did IOTL?

Well the Ditmarschen peasant state survived until 1559, Christian I succeeded to the Danish throne in 1448.
 
I really wish I could give you an answer, but this isn't a period I have really researched all that much. It is an interesting series of questions though.

Okay, thanks

Wasn't Christian the most direct of the Holsten line in line for Denmark? His greatgrandfather Henry II of Holsten had a brother Nicolas but his line leads through several daughter lines to John V of Saxe Lauenburg.
Otherwise we're going through the Princes of Werle and probably Ulrich II Duke of Mecklenburg-Stargard husband of the eldest Gustrow daughter.
Both these options seem weaker than the Oldenburgs Holsten line.

I must profess ignorance on the grounds of Christian I's ancestry. Christian might be the most direct in line, but if he's still elected king, but if the Schauenburg branch is one of (if not the) most powerful landowner in the kingdom (as was the case under King Erik and King Kristoffer III), then it may complicate things - at least IMO.

Christian I's election was made possible on account of two things: 1) his relation to king Erik V on his mother's side and 2) the fact that he was from a minor German princely family. The second fact was of much importance, since it meant he did not possess the political muscle to strong-arm the electoral college in the council of the realm. By choosing candidates who were "lesser" (and foreign) nobles, the aristocracy could expand and maintain its influence vis-a-vis the crown.

So Christian might still be elected as king (rather than Gerhard or Heinrich) - even if his maternal family survives? They've got a better claim to the throne, but they also own enough land in Denmark/Holstein that they are unpalatable to a nobility that might otherwise support them?
 
Christian I's election was made possible on account of two things: 1) his relation to king Erik V on his mother's side and 2) the fact that he was from a minor German princely family. The second fact was of much importance, since it meant he did not possess the political muscle to strong-arm the electoral college in the council of the realm. By choosing candidates who were "lesser" (and foreign) nobles, the aristocracy could expand and maintain its influence vis-a-vis the crown.
Well, from looking at the genealogy the Holsten claim comes from Sophie of Werle daughter of Prince (comital) Nicolas II and Princess (royal) Rixa/Richessa of Denmark.
The Werles went through more generations and daughters (Nicolas's line versus his brothers') the Werle-Gustrow daughter.
 
So Christian might still be elected as king (rather than Gerhard or Heinrich) - even if his maternal family survives? They've got a better claim to the throne, but they also own enough land in Denmark/Holstein that they are unpalatable to a nobility that might otherwise support them?

It's a good question. Christian of Oldenburg was a perfect candidate because he was also willing to marry Christopher's young widow, Dorothea of Brandenburg, who otherwise would have had to be paid a considerable pension. Which just goes to show, that when it came to electing foreign princelings, the Danish council of the realm put just as much emphasis on practical political benefits as theoretical claims.
 
It's a good question. Christian of Oldenburg was a perfect candidate because he was also willing to marry Christopher's young widow, Dorothea of Brandenburg, who otherwise would have had to be paid a considerable pension. Which just goes to show, that when it came to electing foreign princelings, the Danish council of the realm put just as much emphasis on practical political benefits as theoretical claims.

Well, Henrik would be around 3 years younger than Dorothea, so in theory it could work, but there's the fact that he has quite a big piece of land, which as I said, would alienate some people's support. And if he does, they can't control him as well as someone who had a much smaller/distant powerbase?
 
Well, Henrik would be around 3 years younger than Dorothea, so in theory it could work, but there's the fact that he has quite a big piece of land, which as I said, would alienate some people's support. And if he does, they can't control him as well as someone who had a much smaller/distant powerbase?

I had the chance to take a look at some other sources earlier today, and it turns out that Adolph was originally approached because it was hoped that his accession would mean a reunification of the horribly partitioned Schleswig provinces.
 
Honestly it would be much more interesting if the Mecklenburg inherited Denmark, of course it would result in continued conflict with the Duke of Schleswig, but in the long run we would likely see Denmark regaining Schleswig without the deal with Holstein.
 
I had the chance to take a look at some other sources earlier today, and it turns out that Adolph was originally approached because it was hoped that his accession would mean a reunification of the horribly partitioned Schleswig provinces.

That could've been interesting. Although, wouldn't the Schleswig provinces simply be partitioned again for his (Gerhard/Henrik/Adolf's) sons? I will confess, I've never really seen the point of dividing and subdividing your lands until there's nothing left. I'm guessing Adolf refused? Do you know what the reason was? Or was it a thing of they approached several people at once, and by the time Adolf had an answer for them, they'd already gone with Christoph/Christian?

Honestly it would be much more interesting if the Mecklenburg inherited Denmark, of course it would result in continued conflict with the Duke of Schleswig, but in the long run we would likely see Denmark regaining Schleswig without the deal with Holstein.

Why would you be for a Mecklenburg Denmark? I admit it could be fun, but sadly, I don't know enough about the period to comment further than that.
WOuld Denmark with Schleswig be in a better/stronger place? And what would happen to Holstein in this scenario?
 
That could've been interesting. Although, wouldn't the Schleswig provinces simply be partitioned again for his (Gerhard/Henrik/Adolf's) sons? I will confess, I've never really seen the point of dividing and subdividing your lands until there's nothing left. I'm guessing Adolf refused? Do you know what the reason was? Or was it a thing of they approached several people at once, and by the time Adolf had an answer for them, they'd already gone with Christoph/Christian?

Adolph was the original choice, but he declined on account of his advanced age and instead suggested his nephew, Christian of Oldenburg.
 
Adolph was the original choice, but he declined on account of his advanced age and instead suggested his nephew, Christian of Oldenburg.

So do you think that if push still comes to shove (Gerhard or Henrik surviving) that one of them might end up as king of Denmark? Or would it be a case of no dice?
 
So do you think that if push still comes to shove (Gerhard or Henrik surviving) that one of them might end up as king of Denmark? Or would it be a case of no dice?

It would depend on how the enfeoffment of the Schleswig/Holstein ducal parts played out. It's a notoriously difficult issue to wrap your head around, so I'm afraid I simply do not know.
 
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