WI: No title of "emperor"

We get the word "emperor" from the Romans, via one of the many titles of the Caesars: "imperator". But what if there were never any Roman emperors...what generic term would have been used instead to refer to the rulers of empires? Would we have started referring to all of them as Huangdis, after the rulers of China? Or would we have instead called them Shahs after the Persians, or maybe even Khans after the Mongols? So what do you think would have become the standard imperial title had the Roman Empire never existed?
 
King, maybe? Kingdom for empire? Honestly, the other phrases you mentioned would only gain precedence if the East became as influential as Rome had.

Or, if Greece remains influential, the term tyrant might simply come to define a strong leader...
 
I believe that there is the title of High King that was used long ago. There could be variations on Caesar as happened historically with Tsar/Tzar/Czar and Kaiser/Kaisar.

Wouldn't there also be a different word for 'empire' also? If we use empire, wouldn't we eventually get something close to empiror.
 
I believe that there is the title of High King that was used long ago. There could be variations on Caesar as happened historically with Tsar/Tzar/Czar and Kaiser/Kaisar.

Wouldn't there also be a different word for 'empire' also? If we use empire, wouldn't we eventually get something close to emperor.
"High King" or "King of Kings" works well. Many nations actually used that as the title of a ruler whose style was translated as Emperor in English. Such as "Negus Negusti" in Abyssinia or "Shahanshah" in Persia. Even Ireland's monarch was called "Ard Ri" or "High King" in ancient times.

Empire could be called "Dominion", "High Kingdom", "Domain", etc. IIRC, the Seleucid-era Parsi word for their nation was "Eryamehr" or "Dominion of the Aryans(Persians)".
 
"High King" or "King of Kings" works well. Many nations actually used that as the title of a ruler whose style was translated as Emperor in English. Such as "Negus Negusti" in Abyssinia or "Shahanshah" in Persia. Even Ireland's monarch was called "Ard Ri" or "High King" in ancient times.

Also Maharajadiraja, Great King of Kings.
 
Didn't Imperator just mean General in Latin?

Not exactly, but basically yes. Being an imperator meant representing the power of the Roman people in matters military and civil outside the borders of the City, but it was not automatic with military command or political office - you had to earn it. If we have a Roman Empire at all, we will have 'imperator'. The title need not mean emperor, though - in ancient Rome, the key word was 'Augustus', the Augustus being the highest imperator (and usually the only one).

Without a Roman title of imperator, the most likely one for Europe is a derivation from the words for 'king' (rex, ri, reiks, cyning, kuninga, basileus). There used to be no word for anything higher than king for a long time, and people made do with phrases like 'High King' or 'King of Kings'. In the MIddle East, that tradition continued AFAIK. China and Rome were the only places that developed words we would loosely translate as 'emperor'.
 
"Basileus" perhaps, as used by Alexander the Great, his succesors, and the Roman Emperors themselves post 641AD...
Very interesting history, that word has.
Basileus was used by the Ancient Greeks primarily to refer to the Great King (of Persia). Therefore, it was used by Alexander. It still was translated only as "king".
Byzantine (Roman) Emperors used the title "Basileus kai Autokrator"- literally "king and autocrat". The title was then reserved for the Emperor. Other kings were referred to as "Rigas"- from "rex".
In modern Greek, Basileus (with altered spelling) is used to refer to kings, and was used by the kings of Greece. Rigas, however, is the word used for the king in playing cards.
 

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I believe that there is the title of High King that was used long ago. There could be variations on Caesar as happened historically with Tsar/Tzar/Czar and Kaiser/Kaisar.

Wouldn't there also be a different word for 'empire' also? If we use empire, wouldn't we eventually get something close to empiror.

Both German and Danish use "Caesar" Realm (Kaiserreich/Kejserrige) for empire, if English also used a synonym for Caesar as term for Emperor, we could see the same in English.

How it could happen is rather easy, we just let the Norman invasion fail, England would likely grow closer to Germany/Hansen with a nobility who spoke a language which were mutual intelligibility with Low German, which could make them adopt the term "Kaiserreich" in same way Danish did.
 
China and Rome were the only places that developed words we would loosely translate as 'emperor'.
And Japan.

And even then, in China and Japan, their imperial titles literally meant "Holy and Sage Lord" (Huangdi) and "Divine Ruler" (Tennou) respectively.
Not exactly equivalent to the Roman terms for an Emperor.
 
But didnt "Imperator" start out meaning "conquering general"? Quite a few generals, like some of the Scipio's and Caesar himself were proclaimed Imperator....
True, but the late-Roman connotation was different, due to it being coterminous with the person and collective offices of the Emperor. By the Late period of the Western Empire, it carried the meaning of a temporal ruler who was beneath no-one by the divine, and no king was above him in his authority. This concept carried into the medieval office of Holy Roman Emperor.

That connotation of it is markedly similar to the Japanese and Chinese idea of a temporal monarch who was beneath only the gods, and seen as being the son of the heavens, and the gods' representative on earth. Also oddly similar to the Egyptian office of Pharaoh.

Which is why I prefer "Pharaoh" to be translated in English as "Emperor of Egypt" instead of "King of Egypt". :D
 
Without a Roman title of imperator, the most likely one for Europe is a derivation from the words for 'king' (rex, ri, reiks, cyning, kuninga, basileus). There used to be no word for anything higher than king for a long time, and people made do with phrases like 'High King' or 'King of Kings'. In the MIddle East, that tradition continued AFAIK. China and Rome were the only places that developed words we would loosely translate as 'emperor'.

It's just a detail, but isn't the Indian title 'samraat' roughly an equivalent of 'emperor'?
 
True, but the late-Roman connotation was different, due to it being coterminous with the person and collective offices of the Emperor. By the Late period of the Western Empire, it carried the meaning of a temporal ruler who was beneath no-one by the divine, and no king was above him in his authority. This concept carried into the medieval office of Holy Roman Emperor.

That connotation of it is markedly similar to the Japanese and Chinese idea of a temporal monarch who was beneath only the gods, and seen as being the son of the heavens, and the gods' representative on earth. Also oddly similar to the Egyptian office of Pharaoh.

Which is why I prefer "Pharaoh" to be translated in English as "Emperor of Egypt" instead of "King of Egypt". :D

Just to amplify that a bit, Imperitor would, to the Romans, mean "Supreme General" or "Ruler of the Military". While Roman Citizens didn't have Kings, their military did, apparently. Maybe we wouldn't have a single title for the ruler of a domain made of different territories.
 
I think "King of Kings", "Great King", or perhaps "Supreme King" might be the most obvious title of the heriditary ruler of a large realm which had within it subservient provinces ruled by lesser kings and nobles. And "realm" is the obvious term if the word "empire" was not available.
 
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