WI: No Star Wars

JVM · May 28, 2016

For one reason or another, Star Wars never happens. I don't want to dote on the details.

How does this affect the development of film and pop culture? Does another Science Fiction film fill the same niche and kick off similar trends? Is it an OTL film that could offer butterflies, or a unique ITTL film of a similar nature? Do we still see a rush of science fiction films in the same period? How are they changed by the 'replacement' film if it does happen? If no science fiction boom, what takes it's place? Are the fates of Star Trek and other older Science Fiction franchises affected? What happens to the SDI program, if we even hit that point?

Thon Taddeo · May 28, 2016

Star Trek Phase 2 might be made. IIRC, the decision to film the Motion Picture was due to the success of Star Wars.

Electric Monk · May 28, 2016

Certainly science fiction films will be a harder sell without Star Wars, but at the very least Spielberg alone will cause studios to chase science fiction. Also note how few big budget space operas in the 1980s there were, Star Wars had more influence in reinforcing the blockbuster idea and merchandise and corporate strategy.

Thon Taddeo said:
Star Trek Phase 2 might be made. IIRC, the decision to film the Motion Picture was due to the success of Star Wars.

Among a number of other reasons—the most important being the planned Paramount television network not going ahead—so perhaps the execs reign in the budget a little but I doubt it since Close Encounters still blows up.

JVM · May 29, 2016

Star Trek Phase 2 might be made. IIRC, the decision to film the Motion Picture was due to the success of Star Wars.

That's part of the nod in the original post. Electric Monk notes the network as well, which I know about, but I'm unsure of how this all fits into a broader timeline.

Certainly science fiction films will be a harder sell without Star Wars, but at the very least Spielberg alone will cause studios to chase science fiction. Also note how few big budget space operas in the 1980s there were, Star Wars had more influence in reinforcing the blockbuster idea and merchandise and corporate strategy.

This is true. I'm just trying to figure out how that changes without it.

Zheng He · May 29, 2016

Does this slow the development of special effects at all? One of the big things about Star Wars was that it was a revolutionary leap in special effects. For a movie made in the mid-1970s, it is amazing how well the effects still stand up.

SeanPdineen · May 29, 2016

In breaks down the old disappointing sci fi Logan's run type stuff of the early 70's.

Zheng He · May 29, 2016

SeanPdineen said:
In breaks down the old disappointing sci fi Logan's run type stuff of the early 70's.

Exactly, without Star Wars would we have continued on with that type of science fiction for the next X number of years. Star Wars was a clean break from that model. Without it, how long are we stuck with stuff like Logan's Run?

SeanPdineen · May 29, 2016

I would say till the mid 80's social commentaries about how the world stinks

NCW8 · May 29, 2016

Zheng He said:
Without it, how long are we stuck with stuff like Logan's Run?

Thirty years - then a Sandman will come and terminate them.

Cheers,
Nigel

JVM · May 30, 2016

Zheng He said:
Does this slow the development of special effects at all? One of the big things about Star Wars was that it was a revolutionary leap in special effects. For a movie made in the mid-1970s, it is amazing how well the effects still stand up.

I thought about this, yeah. No Industrial Light & Magic, possibly. I don't know how involved Lucas really was in the company. Also no Skywalker Sound.

markedward · May 30, 2016

Had Star Wars not come along, For Your Eyes Only would have been the next James Bond movie instead of Moonraker.

Zheng He · May 30, 2016

markedward said:
Had Star Wars not come along, For Your Eyes Only would have been the next James Bond movie instead of Moonraker.

Good point, I hadn't thought of that...

Maximara · May 30, 2016

Thon Taddeo said:
Star Trek Phase 2 might be made. IIRC, the decision to film the Motion Picture was due to the success of Star Wars.

Actually is may not be that simple. Per wikipedia (yes, I know but go with it):

"The success of the series in syndication convinced the studio to begin work on a feature film in 1975. A series of writers attempted to craft a suitably epic script, but the attempts did not satisfy Paramount, so the studio scrapped the project in 1977. Paramount instead planned on returning the franchise to its roots with a new television series, Star Trek: Phase II. The box office success of Close Encounters of the Third Kind convinced Paramount that science fiction films other than Star Wars could do well at the box office, so the studio cancelled production of Phase II and resumed its attempts at making a Star Trek film."

For reference, Star Wars and Close Encounters of the Third Kind both came to theaters in 1977 (May 25 and November 16 respectively)

The problem is that Phase II production was shut down November 11 some five days before Close Encounters of the Third Kind even hit theaters

Alon · May 30, 2016

In this TL, did Jaws happen? Because Jaws and A New Hope were the two movies that wrecked New Hollywood and led to the transition to the summer blockbuster.

oreocruncher · May 30, 2016

Well, it would take longer before the idea of merchandising based on movie properties becomes a thing...

markedward · May 30, 2016

New Hollywood is one of my favourite film periods. I think (or hope) it would have carried on a few more years with Jaws and no Star Wars. It was kind of a 1-2 punch. I always thought what truly killed New Hollywood were Heaven's Gate and One From The Heart. If there's a way to butterfly those and a have series of flop films released to try replicating the summer success of Jaws, it might have kept going a few more years.

Electric Monk · May 31, 2016

markedward said:
I always thought what truly killed New Hollywood were Heaven's Gate and One From The Heart. If there's a way to butterfly those and a have series of flop films released to try replicating the summer success of Jaws, it might have kept going a few more years.

Heaven's Gate can easily be killed. The book Final Cut (by Steven Bach, also a documentary) has at least a dozen turning points. An excellent book too, more about studio politics and how films go wrong than a straight coverage of the film.

Edit: stick failure Lucas at Zoetrope and he's the idea man for Coppola (and probably helps Spielberg too). Together the two men find success in a different way from OTL. Butterflies kill Heaven's Gate (I'd have to re-read the book, but I'm sure something could be effected by no Anerican Graffiti say).

markedward · May 31, 2016

Electric Monk said:
Heaven's Gate can easily be killed. The book Final Cut (by Steven Bach, also a documentary) has at least a dozen turning points. An excellent book too, more about studio politics and how films go wrong than a straight coverage of the film.

I need to track this book down. Butterflying American Graffiti could butterfly Happy Days too. That movie was almost as huge as Star Wars.

departue · May 31, 2016

yes it would butterfly happy days without american grafiti. I wonde rif Kucas never wne t into filmamking and less competion .Steven Speilberg would make amore seriuos ambitous Buck Rogers movie in the 80s which would be better then the campy t.v. show?>?

Dave Howery · May 31, 2016

didn't "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" come out the same year? It was a bit scary/mysterious in places, but uplifting at the end. How might that affect sci fi films in the future?