WI- No reformation

This is quite a big 'WI' but its not one that we ever discuss too much (unlike 'nazis win ww2', 'cp win ww1', etc...)

So...assume during the late 15th century there is a Pope who cares who does a bit of reforming from within and pushes the catholic church towards how it was IOTL post-Trent. As a result there's no Lutheranism or Calvinism or anything like that.
I suppose you could assume a few more Husses in the years that follow but nothing with such a large impact as OTL protestantism.

How would civilization develop without this huge event?

I have my ideas....
 
Civilization would develop just fine, only differently.

A series of wars would never have occured within Germany.

Perhaps England suffers unrest, assuming they still didn't create the Anglican Church.

For the church to be sufficiently reformed, many protestant characteristics would have to be adapted, so we can assume that quite a bit still changes.
 

Blackwood

Banned
Not quite sure. The Church will keep people quite a bit more united, where in OTL there were wars and revolts. Not sure about England, depends if the Anglican church is still formed. The Church itself will develop quite differently - if so many Protestant characteristics are absorbed so as to satisfy most (if not all) dissidents...well, plain and simple, that's going to be a radically different Church than what most of us Catholics grew up learning about today. As to what kind of changes the Church would adopt, that's for those more knowledgeable than I. ;)
 
The Anglican Church would still have formed. In OTL, it was in the end a result of politics more than religion. In this timeline, the Holy Roman Empire would still have won the Battle of Pavia. Therefore, when Henry VIII asked the pope to annul his marriage, the Imperial soldiers would still have kept him from doing such a thing. The rest is history. In this time line though, the results would have been worse. The Englishmen would have been the only ones to reform, meaning that more of them would be adverse to it. Also, France and the HRE, no longer distracted, could carry out their designs against England. Assuming that England still exists and is still Protestant when Henry died, his successor would have been too weak to preserve it. Assuming that somehow it still survives by the end of his reign, all would have been brought to an end in the reign of Mary I.
 
And the catholic dominated mainland would no doubt make sure that when Elizabeth comes to power, assuming she does, that she does not return the country to Protestantism. IOTL, she returned the country to that because she wanted to satisfy everyone; if it would be only slightly beneficial and political suicide ITTL, then she would probably keep some form of moderate catholicism.
 

Blackwood

Banned
Moderate? What do you mean in ATL?

And would a "moderate" form even be necessary of viable in this England?
 
Outside of the HRE, in strong states, I think that the Catholic church comes more under state influence. In the HRE and other places it depends on if there is events in which the secularisation of power occurs. To some degree an anti-clerical movement might take the place of the reformation. You might see crowds of people try and seize church land, etc.
 
My thoughts- IOTL religion was often just used as an excuse to go against the existing social order.
Clearly the world was in the midst of moving between the feudal and the capitalist periods and the urban bourgeois was going to make more of a move for power.
Without religion to grasp onto as an excuse though...well you could well get 'radical capitalist revolutionaries' in the vein of 19th/20th century socialist ones. And without the monarchs being able to make more power for themselves via a protestant church many of these movements would likely end up being quite republican in nature...


And I don't think the church would need to change much at all. If it had been in the state it was post council of Trent you wouldn't get the split; Trent answered most of the main protestant issues afterall.
 
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