WI No recapture of Constantinople in 1261?

Excepting the potentially dangers political effects of recapturing Constantinople and putting the Latin Empire to an end, I would think just taking a small, defensible sliver of land in Europe wouldn't much overtax Nicaean resources. Perhaps the Nicaeans could hold onto an area that resembles current Turkish Europe, and then leave the rest for the future?

Such would probably keep the Nicaean state from overtaxing itself and weakening its position in its relatively prosperous Asian lands.
 
Believe it or not but I was going to post this WI today! Thank God I checked first :D

As for the WI itself, I think Nicaea would focus more on the Asian front and without Strategopoulos' constant raids at Epirus we will see more money in Michael's treasury. Maybe Epirus could even be the one to capture Constantinople?

Hmmm... it seems that i have forgotten Epirus... If Trebizond is too weak to try and capture Constantinople after a Nicean "failure" could the Despot Michael II of Epirus make an attempt?
 
Excepting the potentially dangers political effects of recapturing Constantinople and putting the Latin Empire to an end, I would think just taking a small, defensible sliver of land in Europe wouldn't much overtax Nicaean resources. Perhaps the Nicaeans could hold onto an area that resembles current Turkish Europe, and then leave the rest for the future?

Such would probably keep the Nicaean state from overtaxing itself and weakening its position in its relatively prosperous Asian lands.

The Niceans already held much of northern Greece and Thrace in 1261, so that's the immediate problem there.
 
Excepting the potentially dangers political effects of recapturing Constantinople and putting the Latin Empire to an end, I would think just taking a small, defensible sliver of land in Europe wouldn't much overtax Nicaean resources. Perhaps the Nicaeans could hold onto an area that resembles current Turkish Europe, and then leave the rest for the future?

Such would probably keep the Nicaean state from overtaxing itself and weakening its position in its relatively prosperous Asian lands.

Its not so much that Europe is beyond their means, its the fact they have to deal with Europe and Asia (Minor) that winds up as "sufficient attention to one leaves too little for the other".
 
Its not so much that Europe is beyond their means, its the fact they have to deal with Europe and Asia (Minor) that winds up as "sufficient attention to one leaves too little for the other".

Yes. The post-1261 state, whilst probably the strongest state in the region faces reasonably powerful troubles on each and every border. I'd say the big issue is that the Greeks are not in a position of significant strength on any of their borders- Bulgarians, Turks, Serbs and Latins are all capable of individually holding their own against the Greeks, and, when two or more cause trouble at once, holding ground becomes near impossible.
 
Yes. The post-1261 state, whilst probably the strongest state in the region faces reasonably powerful troubles on each and every border. I'd say the big issue is that the Greeks are not in a position of significant strength on any of their borders- Bulgarians, Turks, Serbs and Latins are all capable of individually holding their own against the Greeks, and, when two or more cause trouble at once, holding ground becomes near impossible.

Yeah. Favorable circumstances that allow for dealing with any one of those - particularly Latins - would probably also mean favorable circumstances that allow for success vs. that foe and survival.

I'm counting Charles of Anjou as a different kind of Latin threat from the surviving Latin states within the old borders - something like what he can do is far more than any of the neighbors.
 
Constantinople

In a final act of desperation, the last Latin emperor cedes Constantinople to Charles of Anjou, King of Naples. The Anjevins are able to re-fortify it and also recover territory from the Nicean Greeks. Perhaps the recapture is delayed until about 1300, with a Lascarid emperor taking the lead.
 
The problem with ceding Constantinople to Charles of Anjou in 1261 is that he's still in France. He doesn't get the papal grant for Sicily until the next year and isn't crowned until January 1266. Manfred can't accept either because he's too busy preparing for the papal hurricane (which came in the form of Charles of Anjou).

The fall of Constantinople to the Nicenes was almost certainly inevitable by 1261. Michael VIII had already made an attempt on Galata in 1260 and possibly attacked the City itself, and he'd just made a treaty with Genoa whereby the Commune would provide a fleet, to which Michael can add his own vessels. Plus Michael has contacts inside Constantinople, which makes any siege backed by a serious threat a very dangerous threat to the Latins.
 
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