WI: No MP44/STG44

There were some covering a few raids by Navy air units. I've seen some historians claim no 'Zeros' were ever encountered by the AVG. Beyond that the AVG was very limited operationally before the US was in the war. Chenault was largely drawing from reports from pilots in other Chinese Air Force air groups.
If you view Chenault's report as an analysis of the best use of allied fighters in general and the P-40 specifically against an opponent that had optimized for the dogfight, doesn't really matter whether Zeke's were absent or common as houseflies.
 
If you view Chenault's report as an analysis of the best use of allied fighters in general and the P-40 specifically against an opponent that had optimized for the dogfight, doesn't really matter whether Zeke's were absent or common as houseflies.

Correct. But his report is still occasionally mis cited as pertaining to 'Zeros'.

Most Japanese aircraft were optimized for climbing and "dogfighting". So they may as well have been the A6M
 

Deleted member 1487

I know: the Russians would have developed something inspired by the PPS 43 sub-machine gun design.
:biggrin:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAD_machine_gun
Basically a belt fed PPS
%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BA%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D0%BF%D1%83%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B0_%D0%9B%D0%90%D0%94.jpg
 
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There were some covering a few raids by Navy air units. I've seen some historians claim no 'Zeros' were ever encountered by the AVG. Beyond that the AVG was very limited operationally before the US was in the war. Chenault was largely drawing from reports from pilots in other Chinese Air Force air groups.

Saburo Sakai in his biography SAMURAI mentions several escort missions he flew covering carrier-launched raids over China.

But I personally believe that most of the time Chennault was probably talking about the Ki-43 rather than the A6M...
 
......... One of which was a cheaper knockoff of the Sten...which already was a knockoff of the MP40. ............
———————————————————————-
Trivia time:
Steonly copied the magazine from the MP38/40 “SCHMEIZER” smg. It’s single feed lips proved problematic with poor quality early Stens.

The rest of the Sten design was a vastly simplified version of the Lanchester smg, which was a rushed, simplified copy of the WW1 German Bergman. Bergman was the first smg, introduced primarily for trench raiding.

The 1915 Revelli or Villar Perosa aircraft MG
540px-Armamento_-_Museo_de_Armas_de_la_Naci%C3%B3n_114.jpg
later used in 1916 on the ground, and by 1918 in single barrel form,an SMG.
In 9mm Glisenti, a weaker version of the 9mm Luger.
 

SwampTiger

Banned
Personally, I think someone would have devised an assault rifle/automatic carbine of similar muzzle power within a few years after the war. Multiple armies had toyed with intermediate power cartridges. Something as simple as Winchester devising a .30 caliber variant of the .35 or .351 WSL would do the job. How many entries into the M1 Carbine trials could have been usable in WW2? The .30/.351 WSL, or 7.62x35, would be analogous to the 7.92x33. The Italians could have gotten further with the 7x44 experiment. Heck, someone could have modified the .30 Remington round to use in one of their efforts. This is a solution waiting to be found.
 
Personally, I think someone would have devised an assault rifle/automatic carbine of similar muzzle power within a few years after the war. Multiple armies had toyed with intermediate power cartridges. Something as simple as Winchester devising a .30 caliber variant of the .35 or .351 WSL would do the job. How many entries into the M1 Carbine trials could have been usable in WW2? The .30/.351 WSL, or 7.62x35, would be analogous to the 7.92x33. The Italians could have gotten further with the 7x44 experiment. Heck, someone could have modified the .30 Remington round to use in one of their efforts. This is a solution waiting to be found.
.250-3000%20Ackley%20Improved.gif

Based on the 1915 Savage .250-3000, a wildcat cartridge with the taper of the original mostly removed and different shoulder. Capable of doing the 3000 fps with a 100gr bullet , around 2600J energy.
The most recent version of this cartridge is the 6mm XC, a long range competition intermediate cartridge

The power of the 6.5 mm Arisaka in a shorter case
 

SwampTiger

Banned
The Czech 7.65x45 is a shorter/thinner variation of the same idea. Just use a 7.35x51 Carcano, neck to whatever bore you want, then push the shoulder back and shorten the neck. 130 grains at 2500 fps for 2450 Joules. Once you have the idea, the form of cartridge can be produced from any source. See the 6.8x43 Remington SPC based on the .30 Remington.

Once a military decides to accept the idea, it just requires the engineering and determination. The Ribeyrolles was abandoned because the post-war French Army changed its requirements once the pre-war long service officers took over designs.

I forgot, the experimental 7x44 was based on the 6.5x51 Carcano.
 
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Based on the 1915 Savage .250-3000, a wildcat cartridge with the taper of the original mostly removed and different shoulder. Capable of doing the 3000 fps with a 100gr bullet , around 2600J energy.
The most recent version of this cartridge is the 6mm XC, a long range competition intermediate cartridge

The power of the 6.5 mm Arisaka in a shorter case
that taper helps with extraction in automatic guns, so straightening out the case might not desirable,
 

SwampTiger

Banned
Yes, the problem of Improved cases was they are designed to eke the most performance from the case. The standard .250 Savage is overkill for what you are seeking. Note the taper on the Russian and German cases.
 
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