WI no mikoyan mig-23 flogger

Khanzeer

Banned
The Flogger’s RADAR pictures on each jet in the formation was slightly different. The leader needed to reconcile all of them, before they could engage. While they were doing that, the F16A would manoeuvre into position and let Sidewinders loose. Also the Active homing would trigger the RWR on the F16 and Mirages , who would then evade. The Sidewinder shots gave zero warning.

R24 had both SARH and IR versions

But did the floggers actually fire R23/24 at F16 ?

Are you describing khalid Mahmood s account ?
 
What were the competing proposals form other design bureaus that were ultimately beaten by the Mig 23? One of them would instead be build i'd assume.
 

MatthewB

Banned
What were the competing proposals form other design bureaus that were ultimately beaten by the Mig 23? One of them would instead be build i'd assume.
I’ve been looking for that. But I don’t see any fighters from Yakovlev and we already know what Sukhoi has.
 

Khanzeer

Banned
I’ve been looking for that. But I don’t see any fighters from Yakovlev and we already know what Sukhoi has.
If we entertain the idea of su15TM taking over roles of mig23M is that possible?

In other words what big advantages does flogger B offer over Flagon F ?
 
With no MiG-23 do they still have the MiG-27? If not, what has the Mikoyan-Gurevich company been doing since the MiG-21 of 1956? The MiG-25 program is nearly ten years away. They have failed attempts with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_Ye-150_family and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_I-75 but nothing else.
The 27 is a direct derivative of the 23, so...

As for other things, I'm sure they'd survive. This was the USSR, not the wset. Profit was not a reason for being; they did what the powers-that-be told them to do. They'd be more at risk from political winds (see Sukhoi and Tupolev) that business issues.
 

Khanzeer

Banned
The 27 is a direct derivative of the 23, so...

As for other things, I'm sure they'd survive. This was the USSR, not the wset. Profit was not a reason for being; they did what the powers-that-be told them to do. They'd be more at risk from political winds (see Sukhoi and Tupolev) that business issues.
Mig27 would be kind of redundant if more su17 and su24 are produced a little earlier and in greater numbers
 
Do you think the need of a tactical fighter cannot be met by better versions of mig21 and su15?

I don't think the Mig-21 has a lot of expansion space left by the late 60's, early 70's. And the SU-15 is a interceptor, not a tactical fighter.
 
R24 had both SARH and IR versions

But did the floggers actually fire R23/24 at F16 ?

Are you describing khalid Mahmood s account ?
Khalid Mehmood shot down a Su22.
As for shooting yes, the Floggers on occasion did fire on F16 and Mirages, which both evaded.
 
Is the MiG-25 program sufficent to float the company from the MiG-21's 1956 launch onwards, or has MiG closed down or been forced to merge with Sukhoi? We'll never see the MiG-29 without keeping the firm busy.

Soviet manufacturers didn't work like western companies. Mikoyan and Gurevich were originally an experimental design bureau (OKB-155). As long as Mikoyan contributed to furthering Soviet R&D, the Soviets would keep the design bureau running like they did with OKB-86 headed by Bartini. He never seemed to get anything usable fielded, but he made a lot of interesting prototypes.
 
Do you think the need of a tactical fighter cannot be met by better versions of mig21 and su15?

The Mig-21 is too small for any significant improvement, specially in terms of range/payload. And it's small nose means it can't receive a better radar, not with 1960/70s electronics. And the Su-15 would have to be significantly redesigned and rebuilt to improve it's range (shorter than the Mig), payload (half that of the Mig) and short field performance. In other words, you'd need a new "Su-23"...
 
No MiG-23 I suppose leads to greater use of the Sukhoi Su-15. Perhaps the variable wing of the Su-17 bomber makes it onto an updated Su-15.

Has the MiG-23 ever shot down a western-made fighter? I’m not sure it would be missed or noticed by NATO. Soviet-era fighters in the hands of client states always seem like the Stormtroopers of their time, conspicuous and in plentiful supply but unable to hit anything.
Angolan (actually cuban) MiG-23 shot down SAAF fighters and pushed SAAF away from Angolan airspace.
Iraqui MiG-23 claimed a number of kills in the Iran Iraqui war.
The MiG-23 probably has more claimed air to air kills than any western non US built fighter other than the Mirage III in the post WW2 period. It will come down to how Iraq splits their claims btw the F1 mirage and the MiG-23 to see which type betters the sea harrier Falklands score.
The MiG-23ML had a look down shoot down radar and decent missiles. (most export versions didn't) It is a soviet analogue to the Tornado F-1. It's problem is that it took to long do develop and ended up facing F-15 and F-16 when it was designed to fight Phantoms and shoot down B-52s
 
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Supersize it, like Convair did with the F-102(J57, M1.2 20,000pound empty) to the F-106(J75,M2.1 24,000pound) where most of the improvement was for range, speed and Radar
MiG did, with several interceptor prototypes that lost out to the Su-9/11/15 line.
 

MatthewB

Banned
The MiG-23 probably has more claimed air to air kills than any western non US built fighter other than the Mirage III.
That’s quite a qualifier. Outside of the US built fighters and the Mirage III, what else is there that was in plentiful supply to Cold War era combatants? No one is flying SAABs in combat during this time, for example. And what about Israeli fighters?

And what time period are you speaking of? There are lots of aircraft that can claim higher kills, Bf-109 for instance.
 
That’s quite a qualifier. Outside of the US built fighters and the Mirage III, what else is there that was in plentiful supply to Cold War era combatants? No one is flying SAABs in combat during this time, for example. And what about Israeli fighters?

And what time period are you speaking of? There are lots of aircraft that can claim higher kills, Bf-109 for instance.

In its era (70 to 90)
I edited it to post WW2 but I'm not sure how many claims Israeli Mystères made before being replaced by Mirages.
 
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