WI: No McDonald's.

I'm old enough to vaguely remember A&W, there was one in Monterey CA when we lived there in the late 60's and there was one on Guam in the early 70's but it shut down rather soon after we moved there. Guam boasted the world's largest McDonald's at the time, a HUGE dining area was the only thing that set it apart from your average everyday franchise...

There is one outside of Vegas...
 

nbcman

Donor
Didn’t Chik Filet start in the 1940s.
Yes and no. Truett Cathy started CFA in the Dwarf Grill that he opened in the 1940s but the chicken sandwich was in the 60s. I had my first CFA sandwich at the Dwarf Grill (now Dwarf House) location.
 
you're harold or kumar?
Harold, the Twinkie.
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But still, even if other rival chains get a more equal playing field, one will still end up dominating the market.

I have to agree, the odds are that one will push to try and take over as much of the market as possible. But unless they are as hard as Roy Krok odds are the rest can maintain a large enough niche to survive...
 
What would a world without Mickey D's look like? What would happen if McDonald's never existed?

absolutely no difference. McDonalds offer nothing of any value to society.

(Unless I have a hang over when an double egg mcmuffin is required. )
 
Are we talking about a world where McDonald’s just plumb doesn’t exist at all or just one where Ray Kroc doesn’t buy them? Let’s say Ray Kroc goes into another line of work and McDonald’s is still in its original form.

Bear in mind that, when McDonald’s opened, it was a barbecue place. So realistically, if it remains that way, it would be a local or regional SoCal chain of barbecue restaurants (or maybe hamburger stands depending on if they rebrand in 1948.)
 
absolutely no difference. McDonalds offer nothing of any value to society.

(Unless I have a hang over when an double egg mcmuffin is required. )

Jack in the Box had a "Breakfast Jack" (eggs benedict on english muffin) on the menu in 1969, three years ahead of McDonalds.
 

elkarlo

Banned
There would still be fast food chain restaurants such as the number 2 fast food chain in the 1970s: Burger Chef. There was a discussion on saving Burger Chef here.

Maybe more Burger Kings, Wendy's, Hardees, White Castles, or who ever else.
A guess would be that someone else would dominante. I wonder if anyone could come and replace MCD , as it seems to have the momentum and all.
I personally see a more fractured market. Same as now with no mcd, a lot of players but no one near dominance
 

Lusitania

Donor
Ray Croc was the driving force in McDonald’s sucess. So the question is what would happen if he did not exists if he not come across McDonald’s.

First off let’s think about what McDonald’s offered, it provided a hamburger, fries, drink or shake for about half of what the competitors offered. Secoundly what did Ray Croc do, he recognized the potential to expand it nation wide setting up McDonald’s in every region of country and he also made sure that they all produced the same food no matter which McDonald you went across the US.

Yes McDonald brothers did not invent burger joint, Ray Croc not invent franchise restaurants but the combination of the two showed the world how it was done. Now if both are gone.

1) hundreds of regional chains would be larger but do not believe any chain would of expanded nationwide and international like McDonald’s did.

2) the big attraction of McDonald’s at beginning was the cheap price and speed in which people got their food. The rest came later as it expanded its menu and reacted to changing society. So cheap burgers would not be so prevelant since no other national chain would exist providing same pressures to produce cheap fast food. Don’t get me wrong you still get burger joints all over the place.

3) all those successful other restaurants mentioned by previous posters saw how McDonald’s operated and followed suite. Yes many of them introduced concepts that McDonald’s made famous like breakfast, drive through. But it was McDonald’s who took people ideas from a specific region and made it national. So we would see drive through expand slower, fish sandwich be a regional menu item instead of introduced nationally, same with Big Mac sandwich.

4) you also not see the rapid expansion of franchise like we did. We would see larger and stronger regional restaurant chains but not a truly dominating national chain. Would Burger King, Wendy’s or even KFC have expanded the way they did with McDonald’s? No those were restaurants who expanded by following McDonald’s lead. Yes they still exist but might of stayed as regional or city chain instead of national.

So expansion of McDonald’s replaced the local restaurants, we lost many unique restaurants due to its expansion. When I travel I hardly ever eat at national chain be they burger or fancy. I want to try something I not get where I live. I want to experience something new.

Think we loose part of the traveling experience by eating same food when in different country or region.
 

nbcman

Donor
Ray Croc was the driving force in McDonald’s sucess. So the question is what would happen if he did not exists if he not come across McDonald’s.

First off let’s think about what McDonald’s offered, it provided a hamburger, fries, drink or shake for about half of what the competitors offered. Secoundly what did Ray Croc do, he recognized the potential to expand it nation wide setting up McDonald’s in every region of country and he also made sure that they all produced the same food no matter which McDonald you went across the US.

{snip}

I don't think that pricing claim is accurate. According to this article from 1978, a McD Quarter pounder with cheese was 95 cents. Wendy's single without cheese was 85 cents but a slice of cheese was available for 10 cents. So McDonalds was definitely not cheaper in the 1970s. Other fast food outlets were selling comparable burgers with cheese for about $1.10.

EDIT: revised quarter pounder after reading newspaper article that described the taste test in Pittsburgh.
 
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Lusitania

Donor
I don't think that pricing claim is accurate. According to this article from 1978, a McD Quarter pounder with cheese was 95 cents. Wendy's single without cheese was 85 cents but a slice of cheese was available for 10 cents. So McDonalds was definitely not cheaper in the 1970s. Other fast food outlets were selling comparable burgers with cheese for about $1.10.

EDIT: revised quarter pounder after reading newspaper article that described the taste test in Pittsburgh.

You 20 years too late. I was talking about 1950s and early 1960s. That was when McDonald’s started its expansion.

What you are quoting is in the 1970s when McDonald’s was already National and facing other franchise or large regional players.
 
The key to McDonald's success is incredible quality control and mastery of logistics. Everything in the production of their hamburgers and fries from start to finish is calculated so that the people working at the actual restaurant can't undercook your food. As a result you get the same tasting hamburger each time no matter where you go. This is important in establishing the viability of national chains of franchised restaurants since it means you aren't risking your brand's reputation.
 

Lusitania

Donor
The key to McDonald's success is incredible quality control and mastery of logistics. Everything in the production of their hamburgers and fries from start to finish is calculated so that the people working at the actual restaurant can't undercook your food. As a result you get the same tasting hamburger each time no matter where you go. This is important in establishing the viability of national chains of franchised restaurants since it means you aren't risking your brand's reputation.
It was that attention to detail, the quality control, the consistency that changed industry. Today you would not expect burger, coffee to taste differently in National or regional chains but when McDonald’s expanded there was no of that and McDonald’s is who pioneered it.

Case point a Canadian national coffee chain had water filters put in all their franchise location so that coffee tasted the same no matter where in country you are. This plus single sourcing makes the customer experience the same. So the coffee someone drinks in Vancouver in the morning tastes the same as coffee they drink at evening in Toronto.
 

nbcman

Donor
You 20 years too late. I was talking about 1950s and early 1960s. That was when McDonald’s started its expansion.

What you are quoting is in the 1970s when McDonald’s was already National and facing other franchise or large regional players.
Ok. Burger Chef was selling hamburgers in 1955 at the same price that McDonalds had in 1948 - 15 cents. Hardees was selling hamburgers for 15 cents in 1960. Other chains such as Winky's were selling hamburgers for 15 cents in the early 1960s. So McDonalds wasn't winning on price in the 1950s or early 1960s.
 
Didn’t Chik Filet start in the 1940s.

Sort of but not really. It was a single generic grill restaurant operating under a different name until 1967 when it changed menu and the name to Chick-fil-A and began franchising. In the '40's and '50's it was just a random grill.
 
Ok. Burger Chef was selling hamburgers in 1955 at the same price that McDonalds had in 1948 - 15 cents. Hardees was selling hamburgers for 15 cents in 1960. Other chains such as Winky's were selling hamburgers for 15 cents in the early 1960s. So McDonalds wasn't winning on price in the 1950s or early 1960s.

You guys are forgetting about the fact that McDonald's has some magical, top secret ingredient in their food that's like catnip to kids.

I only have anecdotal evidence, but the mystery ingredient merely seems to act as a laxative in adults.
 

Lusitania

Donor
Ok. Burger Chef was selling hamburgers in 1955 at the same price that McDonalds had in 1948 - 15 cents. Hardees was selling hamburgers for 15 cents in 1960. Other chains such as Winky's were selling hamburgers for 15 cents in the early 1960s. So McDonalds wasn't winning on price in the 1950s or early 1960s.

Yes you are correct that there were restaurants out there selling stuff at same price. But no one in 1955 -1966 was selling at same price everywhere with a consistence quality. The speed in which it was served was also new. For people to get food that fast was a novel concept. We take everything for granted today. Ray Croc first franchise restaurant in Illinois was the start of the empire. The restaurant in California was simply the inspiration.
 
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