WI: No M1911 semi-auto pistol?

SPJ

Lets say that for whatever reason John Browning either does not invent the M1911 pistol or it is simply not adopted by the US military as in OTL.

How may the US fair in WW1 and the following wars without issued M1911's but instead with revolvers like the 'Colt New Service' or semi-auto pistols of a different design? Also how may the fates of other countires that adopted the pistol differ?

Would it really make much of a difference at all?
 

Landshark

Not a vast amount of difference I would say. It would be nice if the Remington Model 53 pistol got it's day in the sun in this TL though.
 
Simon

Simon

I think it would make little real difference what sidearm people are armed with in and of itself. What would this do for Browning and his company though? I've no idea what their finances were like but would the lack of sales have affected their ability to later design the BAR or M2?
 

UncleDynamite

Simon said:
I think it would make little real difference what sidearm people are armed with in and of itself. What would this do for Browning and his company though? I've no idea what their finances were like but would the lack of sales have affected their ability to later design the BAR or M2?
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The Browning Arms Company did not exist at this time. John Browning was an arms designer who sold his designs to various companies. The M1911, for example, was designed for Colt.

The Browning Arms Company was formed a year after Browning died(1927) to sell arms based on JMB's designs to the civilian market.

So, we'd probably see less fortunes for Colt(though they're such a juggernaut anyway). I doubt it would have an impact on the design of the BAR or M2. Browning had been a gun designer for decades at this point and was independently wealthy, one gun either way wouldn't break him. The Browning Hi-Power, for example, was designed in 1923(well, he started work in 1914, it was patented in 1923), but he couldn't find a buyer, so it was shelved before being sold on the civilian market in 1936. We'd probably see somthing similar with the M1911.

Also: No M1911 by WWI means no Hi-Power. Browning designed the Hi-Power to get around patents for the M1911, which he had sold to Colt.
 
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ggarner57

Other than an awesome gun never existing, I don't think there'd be a huge difference. Maybe the Army continues using a revolver, like the Brits with the Webley?
 

Hipsterredneck556

It wouldn't make that big of a difference, another semi-auto would be developed. John Browning would probably still make firearms and would probably still design a better semi-auto later on.
 

mudhead

Apart from the gun, what about the ammunition? Would the US Army want another .45, either auto or a rimmed revolver round?

This could butterfly away an iconic trench-broom.
 

fastmongrel

99.9% of the time a sidearm is about as much use as a chocolate teapot unless the user is expensively trained to use it and more people are accidentally killed by sidearms than intentionally killed.

Doesnt matter what was issued it wouldnt make any difference but the Parabellum (Luger) P08 in .45 would have been cooler than a cool thing in cool town.
 

UncleDynamite

mudhead said:
Apart from the gun, what about the ammunition? Would the US Army want another .45, either auto or a rimmed revolver round?

This could butterfly away an iconic trench-broom.
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It depends on whether or not Browning doesn't design the M1911, or if he isn't able to sell it by WWI(both would fit the WI).

If it's the latter, you might see the M1917(or a variant thereof) become adopted by the US Army, which also used the .45 ACP.

Also, in this scenario, the M1911 would probably make its debut on the civilian market after Browning's death, where it would use the .45 ACP as well.
 

VictorLaszlo

fastmongrel said:
99.9% of the time a sidearm is about as much use as a chocolate teapot unless the user is expensively trained to use it and more people are accidentally killed by sidearms than intentionally killed.

Doesnt matter what was issued it wouldnt make any difference but the Parabellum (Luger) P08 in .45 would have been cooler than a cool thing in cool town.
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If you want a european product I'd suggest the Steyr M1912 instead. Not only was the loading mechanism more dirtproof, it also showed a higher tolerance when using poor quality ammunition than the Luger's.
 

AdA

A few (reportedly two) .45 caliber Lugers were actually made to enter the US Army selection that ended up with the M1911 being chosen. Apart from being a US design, the M1911 is a better design, but without it there was a chance of an American Luger. Currently .45 Lugers are the most valuable version of that pistol for collectors.
http://www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/would-you-shoot-the-million-dollar-luger/

image.jpg
 
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USN vet

AdA said:
A few (reportedly two) .45 caliber Lugers were actually made to enter the US Army selection that ended up with the M1911 being chosen. Apart from being a US design, the M1911 is a better design, but without it there was a chance of an American Luger. Currently .45 Lugers are the most valuable version of that pistol for collectors.
http://www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/would-you-shoot-the-million-dollar-luger/
Click to expand...

I've seen the .45 Luger on display at Norton Art Gallery in Shreveport, Louisiana.
 
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