WI: No Kennedys

What if Joseph P. Kennedy died before he married Rose Fitzgerald in 1914 and none of his children including President JFK and his brother RFK were ever born? What would result from this? Would Nixon win the 1960 election against Johnson? (he would almost definitely run against him if Kennedy would not be alive to run) What would thus become of the Cold War, the situation in Cuba, the Vietnam war and the Civil Rights Movement? Suggestions?
 
The difficulty here is butterflies. You haven't just changed 1960 and onward, or even 1947 and onward when Jack went into the House. Papa Joe was having an effect before that. He was big in the Stock Market (exploiting every loophole) and was investing in films, and that's where he made his money. So you affect that. And he had his own political career before his comments on democracy being finished in England ended it. The appeasement criticisms would continue to taunt the Kennedy family. It was one of the reasons John F. Kennedy was worried about disengaging overt support from Vietnam (being called an appeaser) and when Kennedy was assassinated, you'll notice a man with a black umbrella in the background, which was a guy using an already then archaic taunt of the black umbrella of Neville Chamberlain. Anyway, you affect those things listed, as well as Boston politics.
And also note what becomes of Rose Fitzgerald (later known as Rose Kennedy). The Fitzgerald's were an established political family, notably with "Honeyfitz" Fitzgerald (Rose's father). It doesn't matter with Joe Kennedy or no Joe, they were already established. So who she then marries affects local politics, and potentially state and national politics, and of course you have the effects from a lack of a Kennedy clan.

The effects really depend on what comes from want of a nail. History and a point of departure more specifically is like a pinball: you shoot it off in a direction, and it would keep going that direction if unimpeded, but of course it will be because you have all the obstacles that it'll bounce off of. That initial shooting is the POD, and the obstacles are the things thereafter and all the chance and different possibilities that come and affect history. And the problem being we don't know a lot of those obstacles, and even if we did they aren't going to definitely be one shape. Rose Kennedy could marry such and such a person, but there's also the prospect she could marry this other person, and both possibilities are legitimate given you've opened up infinite possibility with an alternate history scenario. Things get complex.
 
What Emperor Norton says here is completely true. You've unleashed a zoo of butterflies that are going to suck the nectar out of so many things post-1914. The Kennedys were already a rising American family before JFK became the POTUS. American Politics and America itself would be slightly different, even more majorly different, if the Kennedys didn't exist.
 
How about this? JPK marries Lucy Mercer (known for being FDR's mistress and one of the last people to see him alive)

What happens then?

Or Eleanor Roosevelt? Might be less likely, but would be interesting.
 

Cook

Banned
The Kennedys were already a rising American family before JFK became the POTUS.
Joe Kennedy’s support for FDR during his election campaign was such that Roosevelt was obliged to appoint him as United States ambassador to Great Britain, the most prestigious and sensitive diplomatic America had at the time, despite Kennedy being an Anglophobe whose personality was entirely unsuited to a diplomatic mission. Roosevelt then felt unable to dismiss Kennedy even after he’d become a significant liability internationally; Kennedy had just too much money and too many connections.

If nothing else, having a more astute US ambassador to the Court of Saint James during the period of appeasement and things could have been significantly different.
 
The difficulty here is butterflies. You haven't just changed 1960 and onward, or even 1947 and onward when Jack went into the House. Papa Joe was having an effect before that. He was big in the Stock Market (exploiting every loophole) and was investing in films, and that's where he made his money. So you affect that. And he had his own political career before his comments on democracy being finished in England ended it. The appeasement criticisms would continue to taunt the Kennedy family. It was one of the reasons John F. Kennedy was worried about disengaging overt support from Vietnam (being called an appeaser) and when Kennedy was assassinated, you'll notice a man with a black umbrella in the background, which was a guy using an already then archaic taunt of the black umbrella of Neville Chamberlain. Anyway, you affect those things listed, as well as Boston politics.
And also note what becomes of Rose Fitzgerald (later known as Rose Kennedy). The Fitzgerald's were an established political family, notably with "Honeyfitz" Fitzgerald (Rose's father). It doesn't matter with Joe Kennedy or no Joe, they were already established. So who she then marries affects local politics, and potentially state and national politics, and of course you have the effects from a lack of a Kennedy clan.

The effects really depend on what comes from want of a nail. History and a point of departure more specifically is like a pinball: you shoot it off in a direction, and it would keep going that direction if unimpeded, but of course it will be because you have all the obstacles that it'll bounce off of. That initial shooting is the POD, and the obstacles are the things thereafter and all the chance and different possibilities that come and affect history. And the problem being we don't know a lot of those obstacles, and even if we did they aren't going to definitely be one shape. Rose Kennedy could marry such and such a person, but there's also the prospect she could marry this other person, and both possibilities are legitimate given you've opened up infinite possibility with an alternate history scenario. Things get complex.

This is very true what you said. :) I really haven't thought of the effects of the Kennedys on US politics before before 1960. AFAIK JPK was the ambassador to Britian in the late 30's when FDR was president. If he died early as ITTL, who would most likely would FDR (even how extreme the butterflies are he probably still will become president) appoint to be the ambassador when Robert W. Bingham dies in 1937. Maybe this new apointee can become significant ITTL. I think with even no Kennedys things politically would stay somewhat the same until at least the end of WWII although some details of the economy would be very different. I still think a Nixon-Johnson match (with a slight Nixon victory) is the most probable outcome for 1960 UNLESS some other candidate is influenced by the economic butterflies of JPK's untimely death and manages to pull through and win. As for Rose, she'll probably marry another rich Bostonian of Irish descent. However, despite the fact her father was the mayor, I doubt another "Kennedy-like" family will result from the offspring of Rose and her alt-husband.
 
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