WI: No Jehovah's witnesses.

I have been told if you open the door while your naked, then the Jehovah's Witnesses won't return. ;)
When I was a kid our place was blacklisted by both JWs and Mormons as my mother and uncle had convinced too many of the missionaries to doubt their faith.
 
Back in my old neighborhood the Mormon's were regulars, but answering the door naked or challenging their faith seemed unnecessarily rude, so I use to just open the door, and before they could say anything, quickly grab the Watchtower from their hand and replace it with a quarter I had ready. (They always asked for a quarter for the tract, for some reason, circa 1990), I would smile and say thank you, and close the door (without slamming it). Quick, no muss.
 
Back in my old neighborhood the Mormon's were regulars, but answering the door naked or challenging their faith seemed unnecessarily rude, so I use to just open the door, and before they could say anything, quickly grab the Watchtower from their hand and replace it with a quarter I had ready. (They always asked for a quarter for the tract, for some reason, circa 1990), I would smile and say thank you, and close the door (without slamming it). Quick, no muss.

I invited the Mormons in once. One told me they do a two year preaching mission when they are about 20 years old and then "go and live a real life" (those were his exact words.)
The Jehovah's Witnesses however (who have the Watchtower magazine) seem to all be involved. They are clearly not making a profit at 25cents a magazine. What motivates them?
 
I invited the Mormons in once. One told me they do a two year preaching mission when they are about 20 years old and then "go and live a real life" (those were his exact words.)
The Jehovah's Witnesses however (who have the Watchtower magazine) seem to all be involved. They are clearly not making a profit at 25cents a magazine. What motivates them?
A genuine belief that they are doing good for people by trying to show them the Truth (tm).

Few things are more annoying than someone who is convinced that they know what's best for you, regardless of your views on the matter.
 
I invited the Mormons in once. One told me they do a two year preaching mission when they are about 20 years old and then "go and live a real life" (those were his exact words.)
The Jehovah's Witnesses however (who have the Watchtower magazine) seem to all be involved. They are clearly not making a profit at 25cents a magazine. What motivates them?

They don’t charge 25c anymore. They once thought if the magazine cost something people would think it was more valuable and be more likey to read it.

To answer your question though...Its just part of their church ministry. Some churches run soup kitchens, some run at-home bible studies, JW’s go door-to-door. Its not 24/7 like Mormons, so it’s not difficult to do year after year. Most JW’s go out once a week, maybe everyother week.

My grandfather is a JW, he lived at their world headquarters for nearly 30 years.
 
I invited the Mormons in once. One told me they do a two year preaching mission when they are about 20 years old and then "go and live a real life" (those were his exact words.)
The Jehovah's Witnesses however (who have the Watchtower magazine) seem to all be involved. They are clearly not making a profit at 25cents a magazine. What motivates them?

LOL All this time I thought they were Mormons! That's funny, thanks for the heads up; I guess my plan worked, I was just trying to avoid the conversation.

Yea two years at the age of 20; the Florida colleges (I am a retired high school teacher) are geared up to deal with the Mormon missionary experience, they expect it, almost all the Mormon kids do it. Most stay in the States, but I had this one student who went on to Zimbabwe. He would write me hand written letters. It seems during the experience they can't use any technology (computer/typewriters) even if available (or at least his situation was like that; they also limited his number of correspondences as well). It was a wonderful growth experience for the kid, although I thought it was dangerous considering the African AIDS problem.

The 25 cents was probably just to cover printing costs. -- Really, they were JWs ? I wonder why I thought they were Mormons. Maybe I always knew that and my mind is just slipping. I really don't try too hard with religious groups (and I probably should) for a while I kept confusing Seventh-day Adventists with JWs until one of my JW students got upset with me. She was offended that I was confusing her with "those loons." -- Pot-kettle, yea me too.

You may have to excuse me, I am finding it difficult in old age to be respectful of religious belief. The world has soured me on religion; I have to watch here I don't become rude. I guess calling one religious group over another tilted is prejudicial; unless of course you think the whole damned thing tilted (pun intended) then you get to call your bias a philosophy. LOL

P.S. Was it the Seventh-day Adventists who started out as Millerites?
 
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Not quite, as Islam holds Mohammed to be above Jesus as a Prophet. That kind of precludes them from being Christian in my opinion.

Where do you get this idea? I mean Jesus is mentioned more in the Quran than any other person. Similarly the Quran regularly says that Muslims should make no distinction between Prophets, but that Allah sometimes gives more or less powers to individual prophets. Read more here or here

As for your quote from John, that wasn't a claim to divinity. Read the entirety of John, Chapter 8. It was a lengthy argument between Jesus and the Pharisees. In the verse you mentioned, that was Jesus responding to them that he had in fact seen Abraham because he had existed as God's Son for millennia before he came to earth. Obviously, I am way simplifying that chapter, but the context in which things are said matters.

That would make sense if he wasn't directly quoting Exodus 3:13-15 where God says his name is "I am". Similarly, throughout the chapter Jesus is saying "I am He" repeatedly. He also claims dominion over death, something that to Jews belonged only to God. No to me it is pretty clear that you have to be seriously misreading the Bible to think John doesn't claim Jesus is divine. Furthermore, from a historical context it doesn't make sense. The Bible was put together by the Council of Nicaea, as a distillation of the faith, this is why the Orthodox say that the Bible isn't supreme, the tradition is supreme, of which the bible is a part. And those Bishops wanted to very clearly portray their message, namely that Jesus was the Messiah, Son of God, and God. This is why they chose John to be in the Bible, specifically to explain the divinity of Christ.

But if you accept Christ as your savior (which is what I believe all Christians agree on) than that is it, your in as a Christian, all the rest are just personal extrapolations that gained followers.

I mean most Trinitarian Christians, read 90%+ of all Christians, believe that non-Trinitarians aren't Christian.

I think maybe what I just wrote is gnostic? I also think (I am pretty ignorant on this topic) that the follower types found these these gnostic guys threatening and pretty much wiped them out early on.

Gnostics as a group didn't really exist, or rather they were several related groups all of whom had often wildly different views. To say they were wiped out is sort of correct, but not very accurate. The early church considered them a threat however, with Nicaea they almost all died out, or only existed on the fringe. Most gnostic communities were dead by the 5th century, which is before paganism began to be persecuted officially by the state.

It took 1,700 years for the gnostic belief to finally return via the 'free will' doctrine of the American First Great Awakening, only to have that enlightenment result in new teams being formed anyway, who then once again started to argue over mere extrapolations. e.g. full immersion and the such.

I have no idea what this means. The Awakening's where explosions in Evangelical belief. If you mean that Born Again's are gnostic that makes little to no sense, as they feature none of the characteristics of Gnostic groups. Similarly it didnt take that long for Gnosticism to return, the Bogomils were Gnostic, the Paulicians were Gnostic, the Cathars were Gnostic, so historically it is just wrong

Can someone answer a question: is Luke the only gospel that mentions the 'virgin birth' or are there other references in the New Testament?

Matthew mentions it as well.
 
The 25 cents was probably just to cover printing costs. -- Really, they were JWs ? I wonder why I thought they were Mormons. Maybe I always knew that and my mind is just slipping. I really don't try too hard with religious groups (and I probably should) for a while I kept confusing Seventh-day Adventists with JWs until one of my JW students got upset with me. She was offended that I was confusing her with "those loons." -- Pot-kettle, yea me too.
Mormons and JWs do door-knocking to convert. Seventh-Day Adventists just build a hospital next to you. SDAs may come door-knocking to ask for money for their hospital, but not to convert you.

P.S. Was it the Seventh-day Adventists who started out as Millerites?
Sort of. SDAs are a branch of a branch of the Millerites.
 
One potential butterfly: Gary Gygax was raised as a JW, and I suppose his parents might not have met if not for their mutual faith (I don't have any data on their early marriage, though). Anyway, no JW's might mean no D&D.
 
Actually, I'm not Christian. I'm Norse Pagan. I'm not a JW. I was raised as one but left the religion 17 years ago.

To answer your question, I consider a religion to be Christian if they believe Jesus to be the Christ and Messiah, to believe that he died for their sins and if they actively try to live by Jesus' teachings. I put no stock in whether they consider "God" to be a singular being (i.e. Jehovah) or a Trinity. Neither do I care if they subscribe to any particular creed issued by man.
What does it entail being a Norse Pagan? Why did you become a Norse pagan?
 
Gnostics as a group didn't really exist, or rather they were several related groups all of whom had often wildly different views. To say they were wiped out is sort of correct, but not very accurate. The early church considered them a threat however, with Nicaea they almost all died out, or only existed on the fringe. Most gnostic communities were dead by the 5th century, which is before paganism began to be persecuted officially by the state.



I have no idea what this means. The Awakening's where explosions in Evangelical belief. If you mean that Born Again's are gnostic that makes little to no sense, as they feature none of the characteristics of Gnostic groups. Similarly it didnt take that long for Gnosticism to return, the Bogomils were Gnostic, the Paulicians were Gnostic, the Cathars were Gnostic, so historically it is just wrong
Why did the Gnostics mostly dissapear by the 5th century?
 
I mean most Trinitarian Christians, read 90%+ of all Christians, believe that non-Trinitarians aren't Christian.
Which therefore means that one could argue preCreed Churches weren't Christian.
One can argue that heretical doesn't necessarily mean nonChristian. Especially if the heretics believe that Jesus was the Son of God and the Messiah whose message leads us to Salvation.
I would argue that most Christians consider that last sentence to be the definition of being Christian and that it's the Churches who might claim it needs more than that.


Hmm, I think we might need to move this thread to Chat eventually given the level of religious discussion.
 

SsgtC

Banned
What does it entail being a Norse Pagan? Why did you become a Norse pagan?
It varies depending on who you talk to. Some people are more strict with how they practice, some are more casual. But basically it means I worship the Norse gods like Odin, Thor, Frigg, Baldr, etc. You can read about it here.

I became pagan in the Marine Corps. It just resonated with me. Particular things like Valhalla, and that, unlike Christianity, Norse religion doesn't seem to portray anything as easy or omnipotent. That you must work for everything you have. One thing I've seen, in most Christian faiths, people will pray asking for God to give them things. In my faith, you ask the gods to help you earn them. And that really just struck with me
 
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Why did the Gnostics mostly dissapear by the 5th century?

The original ones where largely crazies and schismatics. This coupled with the fact they had no base of support meant they only existed as fringe groups, this is ever. What is now mainstream Christianity really sort of coalesced by the 3rd and 4th century, and all large groups stem from that church. In comparison, Gnostics never unified they never had large gatherings or communications and existed sort of parastical to mainstream churches. This meant they died with the mystery cults, but earlier.

Which therefore means that one could argue preCreed Churches weren't Christian.
One can argue that heretical doesn't necessarily mean nonChristian. Especially if the heretics believe that Jesus was the Son of God and the Messiah whose message leads us to Salvation.
I would argue that most Christians consider that last sentence to be the definition of being Christian and that it's the Churches who might claim it needs more than that

To argue that would require you to forget that pre and post creed all the bishops were the same, except for the Arians, most of whom later accepted the Creed. I mean we forget that the original trinity doctrine is pretty inclusive, hence the whole filoque debate. So really the trinity was already there, and its certainly in the bible, hence why most bishops didn't become Arian and why most Protestants aren't unitarians.

Also on your final point, you can go on r/Christianity and most people there will say Unitarians aren't Christian. This is the same with pretty much any Christian forum for mainstream denominations.
 
It varies depending on who you talk to. Some people are more strict with how they practice, some are more casual. But basically it means I worship the Norse gods like Odin, Thor, Frigg, Baldr, etc. You can read about it here.

I became pagan in the Marine Corps. It just resonated with me. Particular things like Valhalla, and that, unlike Christianity, Norse religion doesn't seem to portray anything as easy or omnipotent. That you must work for everything you have. One thing I've seen, in most Christian faiths, people will pray asking for God to give them things. In my faith, you ask the gods to help you earn them. And that really just struck with me
Are you a nominal or a practicing Norse Pagan? Is it really possible to be religious without practicing?

Have you ever visited a temple?

Is Norse paganism similar to Hinduism?
 
I would ask as to what criterion you base being Christian on. Because as far as I can tell you aren't Christian, sorry if you are.

The criterion is if you say you are, you are. If others accept you as Christian is if you meet their criterion for Christian.

When I was a kid our place was blacklisted by both JWs and Mormons as my mother and uncle had convinced too many of the missionaries to doubt their faith.

My favorite result of Mormon missionaries I ever heard was a two friends of mine, now ex mormons, who met their future wives knocking on doors. They, the two wives, then roommates, were at the time, Wiccan. One now married couple has since migrated into Asatru. The other's quite supportive of his wife's practices.
 
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SsgtC

Banned
Are you a nominal or a practicing Norse Pagan? Is it really possible to be religious without practicing?

Have you ever visited a temple?

Is Norse paganism similar to Hinduism?
Depends on how you define nominal and practicing. I speak with my gods regularly and make offerings to them when able to.

We don't really have temples. I just practice at my home. If you mean the ancient temples in Scandinavia, no. I live in the Southeast United States. Kinda hard to go to them.

And no, it's not really similar at all to Hinduism. The only things they seem to have in common is that they're polytheistic
 
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