Wi: No Islam?

[Orko]

The Quran was memorized by early Muslimm clerics just after Muhammad's time, but there were several version so it was decided to have one version written in one book, but that was only some time after Muhammad's death.

 

[CELTICEMPIRE]

If there was no Islam we would n't have the problem with groups like Al-Qaeda, but then again, we wouldn't have as much scientific knowledge

 

[Chairwoman Roxelana]

No, probably not, but there's also another scenario I can imagine...

The Byzantines and the Persians are more successful against the Muslims, and a large portion of the Caliphal military is destroyed. The prestige of Islam is hugely damaged, tribes began to break away, and at some point, the Muslim leadership itself gets into a series of civil wars. Islam atomizes, and by 700 the Arabian pennensula has, politically, gone back to the way it was before Islam. No one wrote down the Quran or hadith, so Muhammad has become something of a legendary figure, with different versions of his teachings circulating (though they all seem to agree that Muhammad was a strict monotheist and had nice things to say about Christ).

The Bible was not written down before the collpase of the Roman Empire I believe.

 

[CELTICEMPIRE]

The Bible was not written down before the collpase of the Roman Empire I believe.

it was compiled 100 years before it fell, but writen in the first century AD

 

[Seraphiel]

The best POD is Muhamed or whetever his name is dies of a infection at age three while he was playing with splintered wood. After that no Islam and many different things happens

 

[Basileus Giorgios]

If there was no Islam we would n't have the problem with groups like Al-Qaeda, but then again, we wouldn't have as much scientific knowledge

You'd probably see extremist Christian or Jewish groups emerging: religions always spark off nutcases.

 

[Orko]

The Bible was not written down before the collpase of the Roman Empire I believe.

It was set in the 4th century AD.

 

[Boto von Ageduch]

If there was no Islam we would n't have the problem with groups like Al-Qaeda, but then again, we wouldn't have as much scientific knowledge

Why shouldn't the peoples inhabiting the Levant, Syria and Asia Minor not preserve and improve the heritage of Greek and Roman philosophy? Of course its flourishing is not completely independent from Islam. But the most significant factors for Arab progress was access to a large and wealthy community of Muslim peoples, and the mentioned ancient legacy.

For instance, I think a free and wealthy Persia is in very good shape to foster knowledge almost as much as Arabs have done IOTL.

Europe's setback wasn't due to Christianity, but to the fact that it consisted to a relatively large degree in only recently "civilized" and infrasctructured nations. Moreover, it was handicapped in climatic terms (in a Medieval setting), as well as cut off from India and other regions Arabs gained a lot of wealth and knowledge from.

You should also take into account that philosophical and scientific progress slowed down and finally stagnated in the Muslim world over time. Obviously Islam created a social atmosphere which encouraged preserving, spreading, and applying special knowledge, but not so much its expansion.

The Bible was not written down before the collpase of the Roman Empire I believe.

Duh, you ought to know that "the Bible" is not one book like the Qur'an is.
The New Testament consists of writings some of which were written as early as 40 AD, while others only cannot come from much earlier than 120 AD.

It is the 4th century which has the first collections similar to the eventual New Testament.

But how does that affect our topic here?

 

[Orko]

Well... Most Muslim scholar who contributed to science and philosophy so greatly during the middle ages were Persian. With a lasting Sassanid empire - or whatever other dynasty will rule Persia - they can persist. Though the heritage of Muslim Spain will be lost, and in the levant and Egypt ruled the Byzantines which were'nt too liberal about science and philosophy.

 

[scholar]

Didn't people back saw Muslims as Christian heretics at first? Without Islam, you wouldn't have Arabic spreading beyond the peninsula so the area will still be mostly Aramaic, Coptic, etc.

There was some debate way back then as to whether or not they were Jews or Christians. It took quite a few battles and messengers (supposed messengers) for it to become absolutely clear that Mohammad was not a heretic, but a (in their eyes false) prophet hell bent on spreading the world of God, the updated version.

 

[Errnge]

long term, i think there would be wars over orthodoxy in christianity. many of the wars between the muslim and christian world were not completely based on religion, but other issues like control of the eastern med. sea and trade routes, or simply cultural differences. these issues would still be present (in different shapes and ways ITTL) without islam. i think the coptics, chalcedonians, greeks, and romans would all end up waging wars against each other with the rallying call of Orthodoxy and Defeating the Heretics.

I imagine some interesting things happening in Africa, and some very interesting things in India.

How do you think the Mongol and Turkish Invasions will differ?

And will other religions rise up to challenge Christianity?

 

[scholar]

How do you think the Mongol and Turkish Invasions will differ?

And will other religions rise up to challenge Christianity?

They adopt Zoroastrianism and Christianity instead of Islam and Christianity.

They don't have to. The Church basically just needs to break. Catholics Face off against Orthodoxy and against Reformers. Christianity basically loves to tear at each others' throats over such differences as how to make a cross with your fingers (two or three), in regards towards what type of paintings are allowed (Brush paintings or Mosaic), Whether or not there can be sculptures and images of that which is in heaven. And other fundamental differences that cause wars and devastation. Just look up "old believers."