WI No Hundred Days?

Let's say Napoleon was unable to escape from Elbe and begin his hundred days return to power. What would an 1814 defeat for nappy look like? Would Tallyrand be able to negotiate a much stronger france into the 1820's and 1830's?
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Without the glow of a British victory at Waterloo, European history in the 19th Century would have been dominated by Russia and Prussia to a greater extent than IOTL.
 

Susano

Banned
Most immidatly, "the Congress would have danced on". The Hundred Days convicned the parties at the Congress of Vienan that they finalyl needed to come to an agreement. Without that - pessimist opinion on this board has it that it may come to war between the progressive western and conservatiev eastern powers in this scenario, though I think most likely there simply would be no final treaty.

Which would look very odd on the map

/E: For that matetr I want to point out Waterloo was a British-Prussian triumph. Remember "I wished it was night or the Prussians were here"? ;)
 
So the british, even though they were the ones fighting france the whole freaking time would get the short end of the Stick if there was no hundred days and waterloo?
 

Susano

Banned
So the british, even though they were the ones fighting france the whole freaking time would get the short end of the Stick if there was no hundred days and waterloo?

What has that to do with anything?:rolleyes:

Also, without the Congress of Vienna, the UK would not return the occupied Dutch colonies, for one thing (I mean, they already didnt give back Malaya and the Cape, but now its nothing).
 
Also, without the Congress of Vienna, the UK would not return the occupied Dutch colonies, for one thing (I mean, they already didnt give back Malaya and the Cape, but now its nothing).

Would the French receive back their colonies too?
 
What has that to do with anything?:rolleyes:

Also, without the Congress of Vienna, the UK would not return the occupied Dutch colonies, for one thing (I mean, they already didnt give back Malaya and the Cape, but now its nothing).

Well, yeah I would hope that the Peninsular War would count for something, even if overshadowed by Nappy's 1812 Russia campaign.

Also, would france still have the Southern Netherlands? Would France be less economically devastated?
 

Susano

Banned
Well, yeah I would hope that the Peninsular War would count for something, even if overshadowed by Nappy's 1812 Russia campaign.
What does "count for" mean? We go by possibilities here, not who deserves what:rolleyes: (and Id say the Russian Campaign counted much more - especially consdering a huge Russian army was waltzing down Europe at the time of Waterloo, so even if the Brits and Prussians had lost, the Russians wouldve beaten Nappy bloody within some months).

Also, would france still have the Southern Netherlands? Would France be less economically devastated?
No. France already was defeated, the problem was just where the spoils go. Look at the map I posted, it shows who administrated what during the Congress - provisionally, but if the Congress fails, that might become the permanent borders. The Southern Netherlands were apparently Prussian administrated at that time.
 

Susano

Banned
A Russian Saxony!?:eek:

That would be interesting...

Eh, thats really just provisional, most like. Russia administered the Kingdom of Saxony, because Saxony had stood at Napyps side to the end, and its King had been captured, and Russian troops were occupying that land (as said, tehy were coming in huge numbers from the eats and if necessray wouldve dealth with Napoleon alone). IOTL, most of Saxonys land became Prussian, and the rest independnat again, though Russia had no problems with everything beocming Prussian, either, so that could just happen, and in return Prussia gives up every claim to the Polish lands it has lost.
 
Eh, thats really just provisional, most like. Russia administered the Kingdom of Saxony, because Saxony had stood at Napyps side to the end, and its King had been captured, and Russian troops were occupying that land (as said, tehy were coming in huge numbers from the eats and if necessray wouldve dealth with Napoleon alone). IOTL, most of Saxonys land became Prussian, and the rest independnat again, though Russia had no problems with everything beocming Prussian, either, so that could just happen, and in return Prussia gives up every claim to the Polish lands it has lost.

Of course, I imagined they would exchange it for something else anyway. But, even if it's almost ASB, it would be funny if the Tsar had decided that would be important to him be also the monarch of a German State.
 

Susano

Banned
Of course, I imagined they would exchange it for something else anyway. But, even if it's almost ASB, it would be funny if the Tsar had decided that would be important to him be also the monarch of a German State.

Well, if you look closely, the Tsar does also hold tiny Jever ;) (east of Eas Frisia, north of Oldenburg). And that not due to the Napoleonic wars, but inheritance via the female line before the French Revolution even had started, so technically he already IS a German prince :p

But, yes, youre right. "Tsar of all Russias, and King of Saxony"... hm...
 
No. France already was defeated, the problem was just where the spoils go. Look at the map I posted, it shows who administrated what during the Congress - provisionally, but if the Congress fails, that might become the permanent borders. The Southern Netherlands were apparently Prussian administrated at that time.

I was thinking without Napoleon running around, that Talleyrand would have a much easier time getting france on a good footing again. He did really well with the 1814 treaty of paris and i dont see any reason why he couldnt continue that sucess. He was apart of the congress of Vienna, wasn't he?
 

Susano

Banned
I was thinking without Napoleon running around, that Talleyrand would have a much easier time getting france on a good footing again. He did really well with the 1814 treaty of paris and i dont see any reason why he couldnt continue that sucess. He was apart of the congress of Vienna, wasn't he?

Yes, and he was the reaosn France got restored as Great Power at all. The thing is, if there are no 100 Days,and the Conrgess fails, there are two options: Either there is war, or there isnt. If there is no war, the Southern Netherlands are Belgian. If there is war, it will be much wider then just France and Prussia over the Southern Netherlands, and will be, as said, most likely Prussia mobbing the floor in Continental Europe, and the UK as before safe but unable to intervene.
 
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