WI: No Human Sacrifice in Mesoamerica

[Arkenfolm]

The TL Land of Sweetness had a Mayan conquerer who claimed himself Kulkulkan/Quetzalcoatl returned who forbade human sacrifice and demanded that the people only sacrifice hummingbirds, butterflies, and snakes. This IIRC reflects eschatological beliefs of how things would be when the Feathered Serpent returned. So even if it didn't play out like in Land of Sweetness, it's perhaps possible for something similar to happen to abolish human sacrifice.

Christianity combinend with Agricultural techniques. Afther a couple of skirmishes and the potential to introduce horses and guns especialy a monotheistic culture would accept christianity. The aztecs could read and write in their own letters, they might send a message to the pope in rome delivered by rivals of spain (most probably portugal. Paying a certain amount of silver to have the letters delivered and to recieve a response would probably do the trick). If the popes writes a bull that christians can't be enslaved. Also this would be afther the treaty of tordesillas. France could use it as a pretext to call the treaty void.

What agricultural techniques? The Mesoamericans were pretty successful as it was and the biggest improvement they'd need is adding European domestic animals, which they certainly have the gold and silver to pay for.

The biggest problem they face is the imminent implosion of their society due to a few decades of repeated epidemics as European disease establishes itself. Which might give a good reason to convert to Christianity, but not to submit to Iberian control without a fight. There's a dynamic similar to Sengoku-era Japan here in terms of access to European weapons (and horses).

 

[Orcot]

they had poor soil, so crop rotation to start,

What agricultural techniques? The Mesoamericans were pretty successful as it was and the biggest improvement they'd need is adding European domestic animals, which they certainly have the gold and silver to pay for.

The biggest problem they face is the imminent implosion of their society due to a few decades of repeated epidemics as European disease establishes itself. Which might give a good reason to convert to Christianity, but not to submit to Iberian control without a fight. There's a dynamic similar to Sengoku-era Japan here in terms of access to European weapons (and horses).

Here is a good link I think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_Mesoamerica
They cetainly had poor soil so crop rotation for a start, especialy the fallow stage, Mills, plows would have helped a lot aswel, introduction of mules (mules can't reproduce so your client needs to keep buying them) would also have helped.

You are right abouth the diseases but the population was significantly higher that most areas and they yust needed to make it harder for the spaniards then settling a other place. Their is simply no avoiding the "plagues" problem without a lot of butterflies.

There's a dynamic similar to Sengoku-era Japan here in terms of access to European weapons (and horses).

Yes it looks far fetched but a westernized aztec empire that trades with manila and japan could be very interesting don't you think. (yes farfetched but not quit ASB and a fun idea). Plagues in 149X trade with manilla at the last score of the 16the century. Very unlikly, but in line with westernized regions like Russia, Turkey and Japan.

Make Moctezuma a europhile and a early adopter of christianity make him somehow contact the pope succesfully and let him write a bull to protect his people. Somehow make a deal so the spaniards look elsewhere first. Perhaps theirs a flemish sailor on board and they make a deal with the port of antwerp for diversified trade etc. Perhaps he catches some lost drunk sailors (so sorry must have got lost in the jungle and got eaten it's a dangerous place). To help westernize, help in agriculture help in construction help in languages, help in goverment, help in mapping, etc didn't something similar happen in Hawaii a whole lot later?

 

[Arkenfolm]

They cetainly had poor soil so crop rotation for a start, especialy the fallow stage, Mills, plows would have helped a lot aswel, introduction of mules (mules can't reproduce so your client needs to keep buying them) would also have helped.

They had irrigation and slash and burn agriculture, and no amount of European tech is going to prevent an issue like drought combined with soil exhaustion combined with overpopulation that would lead to a major collapse. In any case, the amount of good, fallow land will increase as disease probably will kill about 2/3 of the population within a few decades and keep the population much lower than it was for another century or two which reduces the incentive to adopt anything but the most obvious improvements like European animals.

Yes it looks far fetched but a westernized aztec empire that trades with manila and japan could be very interesting don't you think. (yes farfetched but not quit ASB and a fun idea). Plagues in 149X trade with manilla at the last score of the 16the century. Very unlikly, but in line with westernized regions like Russia, Turkey and Japan.

They'd trade with the Spanish from Manila, since Spain still has plenty of incentives to colonise the Philippines and establish trading posts in the Inca and west coast of Mesoamerica.

Make Moctezuma a europhile and a early adopter of christianity make him somehow contact the pope succesfully and let him write a bull to protect his people. Somehow make a deal so the spaniards look elsewhere first. Perhaps theirs a flemish sailor on board and they make a deal with the port of antwerp for diversified trade etc. Perhaps he catches some lost drunk sailors (so sorry must have got lost in the jungle and got eaten it's a dangerous place). To help westernize, help in agriculture help in construction help in languages, help in goverment, help in mapping, etc didn't something similar happen in Hawaii a whole lot later?

The situation the Hawaiians were in was quite a bit different than an Aztec Empire caught in an religious conflict between traditional "make the sun rise with human blood" and whatever new faith they have, let alone adopting Christianity, which would make them at least as unpopular as OTL even if they aren't engaging in Flower Wars and such. They live and die at European behest. And non-Spanish powers have plenty reason to back non-Aztec groups, and this issue only increases as Spain gets rich from trade with Mesoamerica.

 

[Orcot]

They had irrigation and slash and burn agriculture, and no amount of European tech is going to prevent an issue like drought combined with soil exhaustion combined with overpopulation that would lead to a major collapse.

Of course it would, more fertile lands combinend with less mouths to feed, it could lead to european situations right afther the black death, a push for urbinization a push for early animal powered labor, or more western african ways to obtain slaves to sell for european goods.

They'd trade with the Spanish from Manila, since Spain still has plenty of incentives to colonise the Philippines and establish trading posts in the Inca and west coast of Mesoamerica.

Spain must first be in possesion of Acapulco now deeply in aztec territory with a bid of luck the news of Vasco da gamma spreads to the aztecs afther 1522 and they try their luck and somehow it works, perhaps it is with spanish help altough the spaniards will probably try and take the region for themselfs.

The situation the Hawaiians were in was quite a bit different than an Aztec Empire caught in an religious conflict between traditional "make the sun rise with human blood" and whatever new faith they have, let alone adopting Christianity, which would make them at least as unpopular as OTL even if they aren't engaging in Flower Wars and such. They live and die at European behest. And non-Spanish powers have plenty reason to back non-Aztec groups, and this issue only increases as Spain gets rich from trade with Mesoamerica.

Hawaii and kamehame are completly different but they where (noble) savages who where europhiles (by necesity) that changed their society to survive in this new world. In this aspect they could be the same.
I was thinking abouth a westernized savage nation in the america's this aztec nation would be considerably different from OTL and perhaps be equipted with lance, sword and a few canons (gunpowerder bought from spain with no idea on how to make it).

Similary to combat deseases they could make a few coastal cities specific to trade with western nation (like japan did). To reduce infectious decease (I doubt this would work).Maybe mix in some indian influences in there as wel.