WI No Holocaust

What would the effects be on the world if there was no WWII-induced Holocaust of the Jews, etc.? Would a different widespread genocide have taken place? What of the lack of a galvanizing motive away from the "horrors of war"?
 
So is this a world where Hitler never came to power and World War II never occurred?

Well, today there would be quite a few more Jews than today, of course. However, anti-Semitism would not have been discredited, and some locales (Russia, Romania, ect.) would remain pretty hostile to their Jewish minorities. There would be continuous emigration West.

If any Israel is created in TTL, it would probably resemble the proposal put forward by our world's Peel Commission.
 
So is this a world where Hitler never came to power and World War II never occurred?

Well, today there would be quite a few more Jews than today, of course. However, anti-Semitism would not have been discredited, and some locales (Russia, Romania, ect.) would remain pretty hostile to their Jewish minorities. There would be continuous emigration West.

If any Israel is created in TTL, it would probably resemble the proposal put forward by our world's Peel Commission.

No world war II may lead to too many other butterflies, so maybe we can still have a world war II or world war II like war, but without the nazis. So some kind of conservative nationalist party comes to power in germany, who still wants to retrieve the areas lost to the Germans after WWI, hates communism, wishes to abolish democracy, etc. but does not have the racial theories of the Germans. So Jews are considered Germans as are Germanofied Slavs. World war II happens more or less like OTL, but without the holocaust. In the end Germany still loses and Communist Russia still occupies half of Europe.
 
Another possibility for no holocaust, although not a pleasant one, is a German win in WW2 and implementation of the Madagascar Plan.
 
Another possibility for no holocaust, although not a pleasant one, is a German win in WW2 and implementation of the Madagascar Plan.

The Madagascar Plan would merely be a different kind of Holocaust, instead of dying in labor camps in the General Government, they would die on a far off place of which we know nothing; stateless, unwanted, without resources.
 
The Madagascar Plan would merely be a different kind of Holocaust, instead of dying in labor camps in the General Government, they would die on a far off place of which we know nothing; stateless, unwanted, without resources.

Not really. It would be ethnic cleansing on a colossal scale; it would be horrendous and an atrocity and the deaths would, probably, be in the millions; but it would not be the same as the Holocaust.
 
Possibly lots more Jews in the US, Australia, Rhodesia etc. as well. This could have an influence on internal politics in some of these countries. For example, white resistance to apartheid in South Africa had a Jewish component that was far higher than their proportion in the general white population.
 
The Madagascar Plan would merely be a different kind of Holocaust, instead of dying in labor camps in the General Government, they would die on a far off place of which we know nothing; stateless, unwanted, without resources.

Not really. It would be ethnic cleansing on a colossal scale; it would be horrendous and an atrocity and the deaths would, probably, be in the millions; but it would not be the same as the Holocaust.

IMO from the limited amount I know about it, both these outcomes are possibilities. I am sure there were those in Nazi Germany who foresaw forced migration to Madagascar as being a step towards working and/or starving the jews to death. Others seemed to think that it was an end-point.

BTW Of course, I'm in no way endorsing the plan or saying it would have been a good thing, it's was just another possibility that popped into my head when I read the thread.
 
However, anti-Semitism would not have been discredited, and some locales (Russia, Romania, ect.) would remain pretty hostile to their Jewish minorities. There would be continuous emigration West.
I'm not so sure it would be the case about Russia. A lot of authors (including V. Grossman and I. Erenburg) commented that official Anti-Semitism grew exponentially post-WWII in the Soviet Union, as if Soviets caught the bug when they occupied Germany. And popular Anti-Semitism in Russia is usually not strong enough to warrant emigration (it were official policies and search for greener pastures that pushed Jews out of Soviet Union, not hatred from gentiles).
 
Well, its always possible that if what we are changing is the Nazis into a conservative-Nationalist government (Hugenberg for example) and what we are not changing is the revanchism, then you get a WW2 but you may also get German nukes without the European emigration of Jews

Hwoever, I believe that a monarchist type of alternate Germany would go after the Polish corridor first, recovering Prussian territory rather than looking for Anschluss with Austria or annexation of parts of Czechoslovakia. This would bring about an entirely different 1930s and entirely different potential war

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Hwoever, I believe that a monarchist type of alternate Germany would go after the Polish corridor first, recovering Prussian territory rather than looking for Anschluss with Austria or annexation of parts of Czechoslovakia.
I dunno, rabid nationalist regime (and this particular "No Hitler" scenario assumes that much) should go after assembling "Lost Germans" too. Territory is important, but Germans are vehicles of the "German Idea" in Teutonic myths, they care about souls much more than about soil.
 
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