WI No Heraclius?

Heraclius was emperor at a crucial point in Byzantine history. He suceeded in reconquering most of the territory lost to the Sassanids but was unable to stop the Muslims when they began their conquests.

So WI he never rebels against Phocas? Do the Sassanids retain control of Syria, Egypt etc? Are they more or less successful than the Byzantines against the Muslims? What happens to the Byzantines in a few years?

I'm going to make a (probably way wrong) prediction. I'm going to say that the Sassanids will be too weak to hold off the Muslims, but I'm thinking their Eastern terrtories could survive for longer. As for the Byzantines, I'm not really sure. (Although I love the Byzantines, I'd also love to see a TL with them falling in the inital Muslim onslaught...)

Well, tell me if you think I'm totally wrong. :D:eek::rolleyes:
 

Typo

Banned
The Byzantines lost even the heartland of Anatolia to the Persians, Heraclius pulled off a miracle in restoring the empire.

Had he not existed, might be possible for something very much like OTL to develope? Let's say that the Romans don't expand the strength to take the Levant and Egypt, so the Persians holds those territories when the Arabs takes them instead. In the chaos of the fall of the Sassanids, the Byzantines takes back Asia minor, and roughly the same Byzantium emerges out of this TL as OTL.
 

Philip

Donor
In the chaos of the fall of the Sassanids, the Byzantines takes back Asia minor, and roughly the same Byzantium emerges out of this TL as OTL.

This really depends on how the Byzantine-Sassanid war ends. If the Sassanids can force a peace from Phocas around 610 (and that seems quite likely), they will have some 20-25 years to recover before the Arabs come a callin'. Couple this with the lack of the damage done by Heraclius, the Sassanids will be in a much better position to deal with the Arab invasions. The Sassanids will have a good chance of repelling the Arabs. It will be remembered as yet one more raid against Sassanid Empire.
 
This really depends on how the Byzantine-Sassanid war ends. If the Sassanids can force a peace from Phocas around 610 (and that seems quite likely), they will have some 20-25 years to recover before the Arabs come a callin'. Couple this with the lack of the damage done by Heraclius, the Sassanids will be in a much better position to deal with the Arab invasions. The Sassanids will have a good chance of repelling the Arabs. It will be remembered as yet one more raid against Sassanid Empire.

Still, the Sassanids will be ruling over a mostly hostile population of Christians, and the temptation to begin persecutions I think will set in fairly quickly, especially if the Romans manage consolidate the Balkans, Aegean and Western Mediterranean (especially the rich lands around Carthage). If this were to happen, I could see the Arabs overunning much of Syria, Palestine and Egypt anyway, probably in an alliance with the Romans, who manage to regain Anatolia, and maybe expel the Lombards from southern Italy? The Sassanids meanwhile remain fairly powerful, with their grip on Mesopotamia, Persia and the Gulf remaining as strong as ever. I think its possible we could see a three-way cold war in the Syria/Cilicia/northern Mesopotamia region between the Arabs, Romans and Persians.
 

Philip

Donor
Still, the Sassanids will be ruling over a mostly hostile population of Christians, and the temptation to begin persecutions I think will set in fairly quickly,

Of this I am not sure, but you never can tell with Khosrau II.

If this were to happen, I could see the Arabs overunning much of Syria, Palestine and Egypt anyway, probably in an alliance with the Romans,

I, too, can see them pulling this off. I do not, however, see 'the chaos of the fall of the Sassanids' as mentioned in an earlier post.

The Sassanids meanwhile remain fairly powerful, with their grip on Mesopotamia, Persia and the Gulf remaining as strong as ever.

Agreed.

I think its possible we could see a three-way cold war in the Syria/Cilicia/northern Mesopotamia region between the Arabs, Romans and Persians.

What would be interesting is the Christians in Syria and Egypt. If there are persecutions by the Sassanids, how do they feel about occupation by Muslims (I see no reason this POD would effect its rise in Arabia)?

How do the Arabs fair without the resources of Persia and Mesopotamia?
 
I would agree with the earlier posts that without Heraclius, the Sassanids would remain powerful, holding Mesopotamia, Persia and the Gulf. The Romans would be in the weaker position and would probably lose Syria and Palestine as well.

The Christians in Egypt were already being persecuted as heretics by the Romans, so they may not be adverse to either Arab or Persian rule.

When the Islamic civil war broke out at the death of Uthman, the Persians could have played the various sides against each other and remained on top.
 
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