WI: No foreign aid in the American Revolution

This includes nations that went to war with britain at the time period as it can indirectly be classified as aid.

So no French or Spanish Aid, no Spanish war with Britain, no Dutch war with Britain, no Second or Third Anglo-Msore war, no First Anglo-Maratha war.

What would be the effect on teh American Revolution without all of this outside aid as well as the effects of Britain not losing land to France and Spain.

To quote wikipedia for the none-American results of the war
Senegal River colony returned to France
French recognises British suzerainty over the Gambia river
Territory in India returned to France
Minorca ceded to Spain
East & West Florida ceded to Spain
All British settlers to be expelled from Florida
De-militarisation of British Honduras
Territory in India ceded by the Dutch
 
So the colonies don't even get supplies purchased in France and such? They won't be able to keep up the fight.
 
The American Revolution is doomed. Without foreign aid the Brits can send more troops while the Americans run out of ammo.
 

Thande

Donor
British victory fairly easily, although it could turn into Vietnam (irony!) I suspect it would end up more like "For Want of a Nail" with the real diehard separatists going somewhere else to sulk and the moderates compromising.

Depends on what the British government does as well, though--whether actions are taken to heal things over and address the causes of the war or whether they go for vindictive punishment that'll only lead to another uprising in the future. (I don't think they would, though).
 
As other said, without foreign aid, only doom....

For what happen afterward, from what I've noticed historicaly, the british habit seem to be after a fail uprising to kill some of the leaders, come down hard on the local population for a few years to show you mean business and then introduce reform based on some or all of the rebels' demands as a show of magnanimity.
 
As for the Netherlands it would mean there are no patriots or the patriots get repressed earlier by the orangists. how thing subsequently go could change things considerably, the british wanted to netherlands to support them during the confrontation with the colonists. if this happens then no 4th Anglo-dutch war and the relation between the Netherlands and britain stays closer and most likely no loss of south-africa etc.
On the other hand it also means the orangists go into exile to france earlier which might start fueling the sparks of the french revolution just a tad earlier.

If there is a revolution of course, because no support means france doesn't ruin itself over it.
 
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I don't think the US could have won without the French, so assuming no help at all, we'd be drink tea and eating fish and chips today.
 
Without foreign aid the Revolutionary War is a British victory. The problem is how one butterflies said aid. Perhaps have the original idea for the campaign that was the OTL Saratoga campaign carried out and this leads to a major disaster for Patriot arms including the deaths of both Arnold and Gates?
 

MAlexMatt

Banned
As other said, without foreign aid, only doom....

For what happen afterward, from what I've noticed historicaly, the british habit seem to be after a fail uprising to kill some of the leaders, come down hard on the local population for a few years to show you mean business and then introduce reform based on some or all of the rebels' demands as a show of magnanimity.

Problem is: Does this habit antedate the American Revolution?

Because the British method of dealing with rebellious settler colonies changed as a result of their American experience.
 
Problem is: Does this habit antedate the American Revolution?

Because the British method of dealing with rebellious settler colonies changed as a result of their American experience.

Very important point, the main reason for the magnanimity with which Britain reacted to the Rebellion of 1837 was due to the American Revolution. Without that experience I doubt Britain would be as magnanimous post a failed Rebellion. However most Britons regarded the American colonists as equals (unlike the Irish) so there will be a end to any post-war repression and some reforms.
 
Without foreign aid the Revolutionary War is a British victory. The problem is how one butterflies said aid. Perhaps have the original idea for the campaign that was the OTL Saratoga campaign carried out and this leads to a major disaster for Patriot arms including the deaths of both Arnold and Gates?

It's much easier to make the foreign aid, at least that provided by the French, go away. In fact, it almost happened IOTL. There was a good deal of friction when French troops began to land in America, friction which some of the wiser American leaders went out of their way to resolve. But imagine if that effort fails, the French are treated badly and refuse to cooperate further. They might well go home - troops, ships AND money (which was on the ships). And future American generations would have been taught to revere William, rather than Benjamin, Franklin in a history written by the winners.
 
Britasin gains the upper hand in the war in particular there is no surrender at Yorktown and Lord North's government survives. However Britain may well win militarily if gurerilla warfare continues and Britain gets bogged down in a dirty war then when the Whigs eventually come to power there may be negotiations with the moderate elements i.e Franklin not leading to full independence but something better than the colonial system. If somehow the war lasted until 1789 and the French Revolution the situation could get complicated. Britain wants support from the colonies but some colonials will sypmathise with revolutionary France
 
After reading about the colony of the Cape and South Africa history, the situation could be the same in the British colonies in North America... The Patriots being the Boer, the Indians being the Zulus and differents smalls americans states being the Boer Republics...

After the failure of the American Revolution, the Patriots who escaped the heavy persecutions can choose to leave the colonies to go as far possible from british rules (as the Boer do during the Great Trek). And we will have some independants small american republics ready to be annexed by the British when possible or to be destroyed by indians tribes acting as cover british allies.

Heavy persecutions by the British will invoved some mass deportations as the British treat the Acadians, you can think about severals thousands patriots and there families sent to some backwater british colonies as the western Quebec (Ontario), east and west Florida, British Honduras...
 
After reading about the colony of the Cape and South Africa history, the situation could be the same in the British colonies in North America... The Patriots being the Boer, the Indians being the Zulus and differents smalls americans states being the Boer Republics...

After the failure of the American Revolution, the Patriots who escaped the heavy persecutions can choose to leave the colonies to go as far possible from british rules (as the Boer do during the Great Trek). And we will have some independants small american republics ready to be annexed by the British when possible or to be destroyed by indians tribes acting as cover british allies.

Heavy persecutions by the British will invoved some mass deportations as the British treat the Acadians, you can think about severals thousands patriots and there families sent to some backwater british colonies as the western Quebec (Ontario), east and west Florida, British Honduras...

Perhaps a few thousand of the leadership, but there are hundreds of thousands of patriots. It's going to barely make a dent. However, I imagine patriot loyalties will get divided once slavery emerges as an issue.
 
Perhaps a few thousand of the leadership, but there are hundreds of thousands of patriots. It's going to barely make a dent. However, I imagine patriot loyalties will get divided once slavery emerges as an issue.

There are 2.5-3 million Americans, total (can't remember offhand if that includes slaves). I assume women and children are being counted in the "hundreds of thousands" of patriots.
 
There are 2.5-3 million Americans, total (can't remember offhand if that includes slaves). I assume women and children are being counted in the "hundreds of thousands" of patriots.

I was counting them, unless the British government is going to try to separate families to relocate just the men?
 
I was counting them, unless the British government is going to try to separate families to relocate just the men?

I'm not sure.

I just thought that referring to "hundreds of thousands of patriots" sounded like it had to be shorthand for "and their families".
 
I'm not sure.

I just thought that referring to "hundreds of thousands of patriots" sounded like it had to be shorthand for "and their families".

I was actually meaning patriot supporters rather than those who had actively taken up the cause. So I was imagning a number of about 800,000. (Yes, it includes kids, but kids usually grow up to have their parents' sympathies.) Either way, the number is large enough to strip them out and still be 200,000+.
 
I was actually meaning patriot supporters rather than those who had actively taken up the cause. So I was imagning a number of about 800,000. (Yes, it includes kids, but kids usually grow up to have their parents' sympathies.) Either way, the number is large enough to strip them out and still be 200,000+.

Given family sizes...um, why am I nitpicking at this? Its still a huge number.

Not sure if its impossible for most of them to either be deported or leave (though leave where, I wonder. Kentucky is the Dark and Bloody Ground, not exactly somewhere safe, and Ohio Country in general is still British), however.
 
Given family sizes...um, why am I nitpicking at this? Its still a huge number.

Not sure if its impossible for most of them to either be deported or leave (though leave where, I wonder. Kentucky is the Dark and Bloody Ground, not exactly somewhere safe, and Ohio Country in general is still British), however.

I don't mind nitpicking :) But remember that there's ongoing immigration, mainly of adult males here. I believe there was something like a 3:2 male to female ratio in New England at least.

Our best guide is that about 70,000 loyalists left, through a mixture of choice and harassment, but they were given land and other things in a safe area just over the border in New Brunswick. The Patriot population is slightly larger, but doesn't have anywhere safe to go really. The frontier is the most obvious place, but women will be resistent to that and I can't imagine the British wanting them able to found new states to attack them from inland.

At best, I can imagine 20,000-30,000 doing a Boer trek of sorts. Kentucky seems the most likely option, as the British can project power from the coasts and the Great Lakes.
 
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