WI: No Fascist Party?

What if Mussolini never founded the Fascist Party, instead dying in WWI or something. Would Italy stay as a constitutional monarchy? Could the Communists take over? They were pretty strong until Mussolini cracked down on them and broke their back. How would that effect WWII?
 
Given the state of italy at the time post WW1, i think one extreme would have eventually taken over, I'm sure if Fascism never takes hold, their would be funding for a communist revolution provided by the Soviets (especially if Trotsky had anything to do with it) or even without it, i'm sure someone else would have. Needless to say, Italy allies with the Soviets in WW2 assuming the enemy is still Nazi Germany.

If its just not Mussolini, i'd imagine someone would have taken up the fascist cause. Depending on the type of Fascism, they could ally themselves with Hitler or just stay out of the war completely.

I'd say another option is a Nationalist Italy, one that isn't necessarily full blown fascist perse. This country may even end up teaming with the allies in truth.

Italy wasn't in a good state, so i'd imagine some kind of extreme view would have prevailed just due to the people probably being desperate and wanting something to drastically improve their standard of living.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
Given the state of italy at the time post WW1, i think one extreme would have eventually taken over, I'm sure if Fascism never takes hold, their would be funding for a communist revolution provided by the Soviets (especially if Trotsky had anything to do with it) or even without it, i'm sure someone else would have.
Well, the Soviets at that time were in no condition to fund stuff like that. They just came out of the Civil War.
 
Well, the Soviets at that time were in no condition to fund stuff like that. They just came out of the Civil War.

that is true, they really ought not to do it, but i'd imagine Trotsky would have tried pretty damn hard to spare resources given his expansionist stance.

I'd say he'd try to provide some kind of assistance (even if its as little as tactical advice).
 
What would happen to D'Annunzio if Mussolini dies? Would he go on to make his own Fascist party in Italy?

Probably, but it will not only much less succesfull in unifying the various faction and get support from big money as was not good in the day to day political work but it was seen by the enstablishment as too revolutionary and uncontrollable.

Given the state of italy at the time post WW1, i think one extreme would have eventually taken over, I'm sure if Fascism never takes hold, their would be funding for a communist revolution provided by the Soviets (especially if Trotsky had anything to do with it) or even without it, i'm sure someone else would have. Needless to say, Italy allies with the Soviets in WW2 assuming the enemy is still Nazi Germany.

Italy wasn't in a good state, so i'd imagine some kind of extreme view would have prevailed just due to the people probably being desperate and wanting something to drastically improve their standard of living.

While not in a good political state, a communist takeover is out of the question; they were already beaten by the time of the March of Rome even if still strong, divided (with the moderate on the rising) and really not capable to start a revolution...it was more the fear of the King and the goverment than anything else based on reality
 
Probably, but it will not only much less succesfull in unifying the various faction and get support from big money as was not good in the day to day political work but it was seen by the enstablishment as too revolutionary and uncontrollable.



While not in a good political state, a communist takeover is out of the question; they were already beaten by the time of the March of Rome even if still strong, divided (with the moderate on the rising) and really not capable to start a revolution...it was more the fear of the King and the goverment than anything else based on reality

whats the POD exactly? is it around the march of rome time or before then? if around that time, yeah then they're going to be screwed if they tried without outside support (and a lot of it), if before then, its very possible depending on how early we're talking.

I'd say, if you take out either one side, the other takes over you would think.
 
whats the POD exactly? is it around the march of rome time or before then? if around that time, yeah then they're going to be screwed if they tried without outside support (and a lot of it), if before then, its very possible depending on how early we're talking.

I'd say, if you take out either one side, the other takes over you would think.

No, by the time of the end of the Biennio Rosso the communist (september 1920) or better socialist change to get in power with a revolution were finished and the presence of the fascist party was not instrumental in obtaining this result; there was a schism between socialist and communist and the moderate lead by Matteotti were on the goverment side going for a 'change thing in the system approach'.
The fascist party was the creation of Benny, he basically held thing together, he remain socialist? He will be just one the boss among other bosses, sure one of the most notorious but he had burned too much bridges before the war; he is killed during the war (OTL happened) and the fascist party remain an hodgepodge of local ras that hardly work together and will be suppressed in the end.

No fascist party and Italy get in the end as a little more stable than France
 
No, by the time of the end of the Biennio Rosso the communist (september 1920) or better socialist change to get in power with a revolution were finished and the presence of the fascist party was not instrumental in obtaining this result; there was a schism between socialist and communist and the moderate lead by Matteotti were on the goverment side going for a 'change thing in the system approach'.
The fascist party was the creation of Benny, he basically held thing together, he remain socialist? He will be just one the boss among other bosses, sure one of the most notorious but he had burned too much bridges before the war; he is killed during the war (OTL happened) and the fascist party remain an hodgepodge of local ras that hardly work together and will be suppressed in the end.

No fascist party and Italy get in the end as a little more stable than France

so basically any faction willing to take over would have to completely squash the other or they all would have to come together.
 
so basically any faction willing to take over would have to completely squash the other or they all would have to come together.

Yep, but in the fascist party without Benny is impossible; he was not the best politician of his generation for nothing...basically he succeeded in unitying vastly different ideological faction and more importantly in getting the support of landowner and industrialist. The other leader that the various local ras can see as an unifiying forces is D'Annunzio and in any case he will be vastly less successfull of Mussolini.
For the left, the division are much more deep as seen by the creation of the PCI and the PSU and frankly an attemp to eliminate the other faction politically or phisically on both right and left mean that the goverments need just a couple of carabinieri for the mop up.

The important thing to remember is that the army, even during the march of rome is still on the King side so any revolution will be extremely hard to won
 
Yep, but in the fascist party without Benny is impossible; he was not the best politician of his generation for nothing...basically he succeeded in unitying vastly different ideological faction and more importantly in getting the support of landowner and industrialist. The other leader that the various local ras can see as an unifiying forces is D'Annunzio and in any case he will be vastly less successfull of Mussolini.
For the left, the division are much more deep as seen by the creation of the PCI and the PSU and frankly an attemp to eliminate the other faction politically or phisically on both right and left mean that the goverments need just a couple of carabinieri for the mop up.

The important thing to remember is that the army, even during the march of rome is still on the King side so any revolution will be extremely hard to won

So having the King on either side would be a big help to either.

Ok then without Mussolini, what about a nationalist to fill in the void instead?
 
So having the King on either side would be a big help to either.

Ok then without Mussolini, what about a nationalist to fill in the void instead?

Sure, why do you thing Benny instead of being throw in prison get the job of Presidente del Consiglio? People convinced the King that while the army this time (aka the March of Rome) will have obeyed, there were doubt that have done the same a second time a revolution was attempted...greatly overblowing the left capacity for that; so they brought on board Mussolini that was seen as someone easily controlled :rolleyes::oops:.

If the political instability continued there was plan for a temporary military goverment headed by General Diaz (even if not enthusiast for that) and with the blessing of the King and the liberal enstablishment to bring back order.

Regarding a nationalist party, well OTL the basis of one (and among his member there was D'Annunzio and the father of Ciano) were absorbed by the Fascist party, if that not happen they can try to take the place of it...but i doubt that they will have the same success or being squashed as too revoltionary due to D'Annunzio sheningan.
In the end they will play second fiddle to the Liberals (that are on the end of their political life if someone or something doesn't bring new life on them) in an authoritarian (but still democratic elected) goverment...if Giolitti as last move of his great career doesn't bring the moderate socialist in the fold, in that case the nationalist will be politely keep on the external support (and treated as the relative that nobody likes but still need)
 
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